Submersible Pumps and multiple check valves?

In the June issue of "Well Driller" magazine, there was an article that discusses the proper use of multiple check valves in a well. Having heard Speedbump's reasoning for using NO check valves in the well, I'm left quite curious as to what standard practice is in the industry.



The article can be viewed at http://www.nationaldriller.com/Articles/Column/BNP_GUID_9-5-2006_A_10000000000000350695

 

Valveman
Thanks for the very interesting and informative commentary. In our area, I have never seen a system without a check valve inside the house at the cross of the pressure tank. Are you saying you don't recommend installing those either? My experience has been that many of the check valves with new submersible pumps, such as two name brands, cannot hold a column of water right out of the box. It has been explained to me that the quality of these valves is very low in order to reduce costs. That would become a very expensive repair to pull a pump if it's the only check valve. Comments please.

 

In my experience, the check valves that come built into or screwed into new pumps are of decent quality. As a matter of fact, the only one I remember going bad was in a Sta Rite pump back in the eighties. They had a hard rubber gromet that did the actual seating and it would break off causing the valve to hammer when the pump turned off. I have seen many of the add on brass valves go bad, mostly because of the springs either breaking or coming detached from the valve. Another problem was the retaining stem breaking due to rattling around in it's holder wearing the brass thin enough for the poppett to actually break free and head upstream to a fitting it couldn't get through. At this point the check valve was working in reverse and stopping or hindering water flow upstream.

Another problem with leaking back was with the Myers Rustler sub not too many years ago. The plastic discharge head of the pump would split letting water run back which would cycle the pump to death. The check valve worked fine.

99K, I'm not sure what brands you are referring to since you probably pulled them out of the post for liability reasons. I would be interested in what brands they are. You could PM me and share the news. These brands may not even be available in my area, so I wouldn't be aware of any check valve problems with these select pumps.

The plumbing inspector in my county made it code that every new well installed since the 90's has to have a check valve at the well head. This does not make it a good idea. I for one don't like to see one anywhere except on the top of a submersible pump. The only exception would be with a galvanized tank with an air making system installed.

bob...

 

Thanks Valveman. It's interesting how installations vary geographically.

 

Only one check valve in or on the outlet of a submersible pump. I've not pulled near as many pumps as some but I've only pulled two pumps that had a broken internal check valve. I've replaced many at the pressure tank that were broken and I think it was because they are installed horizontally.

 

check valves

Wisconsin also outlaws check valves installed above ground. In my neck of the woods we always place one an inch or two above the pump and that's it. Everyone does this, and have for quite some time. I never see problems with this application, except maybe when iron or other mineral deposits are present and than no one wins . no hammer etc. I have seen the valves at the pumps leak by periodically. Any feedback?

 

We practically never have problems with check valves on pumps. The ones that come with the pump that is. These above ground valves that our moron plumbing inspector decided would be a good thing and added it to the code is a problem though. There is no argueing with him though. I tried that route.

Wisconsin has long been ahead of most states with good Water Well Practices. I applaud them for that. Michigan usually adapts Wisconsin code and their practices are pretty sound as well. Florida... well that's another story.

bob...

 

I get 2-3 emails per day concerning any news about water quality etc. from a company that is notified when something newsworthy happens. WI has been having some serious contamination problems with wells in some large areas of the state. For years a government employee there in charge of wells, water quality and IIRC, their certified pump guy program, was constantly boasting on a water treatment dealer forum of their success in avoiding contamination. I haven't seen him post in that forum lately but he doesn't mention the problems in the blog he does for a newspaper where he lives.

I just received one now, here is a copy of the subjects, the subjects in the email are links to the stories but don't work as a copy:

Top Stories for March 4, 2009 Today's Circulation: 18,036


Meds-in-water levels too low to cause harm: study

Credit unions take larger role in small-biz loans

Construction under way on water tech center

Chlorine plant security questioned after arrest

Aging nuclear reactor near source water a concern

Wanted: PCE source tainting CA wells

A week for fixing leaks

Waukegan, IL, gets the OK to drink from the tap

 

if the 1st check valve leaks, why not add a second?

Everyone seems agreed that if the check valve on the pump fails, it must be replaced.
So I'm wondering: mine started leaking slowly, causing the pump to cycle every 20 minutes or so. The pump is 180' down. For a quick fix, I put in a check valve near the pressure tank, and it seems to be working fine. If I pay someone to come out and pull the pump to replace the 1st check valve, I might as well replace the pump at the same time. Buy why not just continue to use the system with 2nd check valve, until I absolutely have to replace the pump ... ?

 

You are hiding the leak and that can lead to dropping the pump to the bottom of the well, causing the pump to run constantly 24/7 eventually, allowing air into the water line and out to your faucets, it can cause water to spray against the inside of the well causing dirty water etc..

You can use that new check valve to install it on the outlet of the pump, you don't need to replace the pump unless there is something wrong with it or if it is worn on the outside or simply based on its age. And at 180' wit ha leak, 2 guys can pull the pump if you don't have it on galvanized. If you do, the nyou need a tripod, backhoe etc. and a couple large pipe wrenches.

 

That leak could be a hole in the droppipe not a bad check valve. That hole will grow in size. If you don't wear the pump out first, the hole could get big enough to allow the pump to run and never shut off. Then your pressure just keeps dwindling until you have practically none at all or the pump just falls off the pipe and settles to the bottom of the well.

If I were pulling my own pump for any reason and it were more than 4 years old. A new one would be replacing it. I would not stick the old one back in. Most of the job is labor not the price of the pump.

I know Gary advocates people replacing their own pumps, and I see nothing wrong with it if your very knowledgable and have the right tools. But I have lost count on the number of customers that ended up with new wells because they tried to fix one instead of calling in a pro.

bob...

 

Thank you, both these replies are convincing ... I will replace the pump and fix the leak. I really appreciate the help! I had questions regarding the type of downpipe I should have in this well, and thinking that that was a different topic, I posted that question separately here:

https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27545

Thanks again!