Lochinvar high limit manual reset - keeps locking out

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Dwassner

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After looking at the manual, I don't think using circulators as zone valves will work on my unit.

But I did come up with an idea that I was hoping you would comment on. I know it is not exactly how it should be done but I think it might solve my problem. On both the outlet and inlet side where the 1" tubing branches to each zone, there are 3/4" tee's that are capped with the intent of a possible additional basement zone. Could I not use a normally open zone valve between these two tee's and wire them to the existing zone valves? This would cause a route to be open when the zone valve loops are closed so post purge could take place, but would not allow bypass when either zone is open. Again, I do realize it is not the proper way to set this up, but it seems like it could be better (cheaper/faster) than the alternatives (doing nothing/reinstalling the unit).

DW
 

Dana

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The indirect not on the main primary loop, but it's often set up in parallel with the primary loop, inside of the regular primary loop. The primary loop is what drives the flow through the boiler under normal space heating conditions.

What are you using for a zone controller?

Can you post any pictures of the near-boiler plumbing, including the zone manifolds? If it's anything either figure 6-1A or 6-1 B on p.35 in the manual it will have three pumps, labeled "BOILER PUMP", "SYSTEM PUMP", and "DOMESTIC HOT WATER PUMP". The boiler pump is driving what's customarily called the primary, and it will be able to pump water through the boiler during the post-purge by just whizzing the water around the primary loop, independently of the state of the zone valves, but it's not delivering any of the heat exchanger heat to the radiation, only the primary loop plumbing. It will even-up the temperatures from the input side of the plumbing to the output side though, cooling any "hot spots".The system pump is what pushes water through the zone valves.

In 6-1A the point of hydraulic separation between primary and secondary loops is the short piece of pipe between the tees below the BOILER PUMP where it's labeled FROM SYSTEM. Both the primary loop flows and the secondary loop flows combine in that section of pipe. In 6-1B the point of hydraulic separation is the component labeled LOW LOSS HEADER, otherwise known as a hydraulic separator. Rather than tees into a skinny pipe it's a fat piece of pipe with lugs to hook up both the boiler loop (aka "primary") and the system loop (aka "secondary").

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If it's only two pumps, with the radiation and boiler loop both driven by the same pump, there is ZERO flow during the post-purge, and the post-purge time should be set to zero. It's fine to run it that way (as long as the minimum flows of the boiler are met), but it means you won't be able to post-purge, and thus probably won't be able to run it at 180F+ without running into your overtemp lock out condition.

If you're going to reconfigure, rather than a pump per zone, add just ONE smart pump capable of being set/programmed for constant pressure, and let it drive the radiation loops, and keep the existing pump as driver of the boiler loop.

What pump(s) are currently driving which loop(s)?
 

Dwassner

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UPS 15 58 FC on the middle setting is the model of both pumps. In my manual, the setup that closest resembles mine is on P. 39 "single temperature with Zone valves".

I do see clearly now why I am experiencing the issue I am, and why I did not experience it for the past 5.5 years.

I do not have a low loss header/seperator.
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Dwassner

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as you can see in the second and last picture, there are 3/4" capped feeds that I was referring to when I said I could use a normally open zone valve. This would essentially act like a primary loop (i think...), but would not be entirely 1" unless I took the reducers off and got a 1" zone valve, and would only be open when all zones are closed. Seems like a step up from where I'm at with ZERO post purge and no ability to go above 180F, unless there is a really simple way to create a primary/secondary loop with my current setup.
 

Dana

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Fig 6-4 is still three pumps, with the point of hydraulic separation right below the expansion tank in the diagram, a pair of tees inside a dotted line labeled:

MAY SUBSTITUTE LOW LOSS HEADER
NOT TO EXCEED 4 PIPE DIA. OR MAX. OF 12" APART.

It looks like that hydraulic separator branch with the tees and the third pump are absent in your setup, and yes, you will get no post-purge flow through the boiler when all zone valves are closed.

Whether it's worth spending the money on re-configuring the system to be able to run at 180F+ or whether there is more bang/buck out of reducing the heat load with building upgrades would requires some analysis. Implementing hydraulic separation would mean that the water going out to the radiation is at less than the full boiler output temperature, since it's being mixed with return water in the hydraulic separator. You will probably need to run the boiler at 190F to get 180F out of the hydraulic separator.

Is the foundation insulated?
 

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The foundation inside is bare block and the house is on a hill, so half has dirt against it and half does not.

I used a zip tie to fasten the manual lever on one of the zone valves last night to keep it open, set the setpoint to 189F, offset to 2F, and post purge pumping to 1 minute. I did this for both the spaceheat and DHW. NO LOCKOUT. I appreciate your help in discovering the issue here.

I am still inclined to attempt the method I had mentioned with using a normally open zone valve, as the test I did last night displays (I think...) that the post post purge flow through a single zone was adequate with the current pump setting. I could also just leave the one zone pinned open for now, as it is for the living room/kitchen which is right next to the bedrooms/bathroom (the other zone) and the air temp difference between the two is negligible. I do realize it is not the most efficient way of having it setup, but at least in the short term, it allows us to run the higher setpoint. Perhaps I can readdress in the spring when the spaceheat is not needed as much/at all.

I will need to call the gentleman who installed it and get an idea of what it would cost to have it reconfigured before making any decisions.

DW
 

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A (comparatively) cheap hack that would achieve the same thing is to install a "system bypass" branch with a ball valve for adjusting the bypass flow. This would be a pipe that goes from the output side of the radiation pump (the zone valve manifold side), to the return side of the boiler (the return manifold would be fine.) Half-inch copper is fine- we're not looking for high flow, just enough to allow the post-purge to work.

With a system by pass you get the full boiler output temperature going to the radiation, but it's mixing boiler output with the return water, which raises the entering water temperature at the boiler, taking a bit off the condensing efficiency (when operating in or near the condensing zone.)

With a system-bypass branch there are no new pumps to install- it's a few copper fittings, some pipe, and a ball valve. It increases the flow through the boiler slightly, and decreases the flow to radiation slightly, adjustable with the ball valve.

It's similar to but not identical with a boiler bypass, which would be a branch between the output and return side of the boiler plumbing, connected on the intake side of the radiation pump. That approach also increases the entering water temperature at the boiler, but LOWERS the temperature of water going out to the radiation because it mixes return water with the boiler output water going into the pump. So what you want is a SYSTEM bypass, and not a BOILER bypass, to ensure that the hottest possible water reaches the radiation (the way it does now.)

But for now keeping the zone valve open will fix the symptom.

An uninsulated walk-out basement is well into double-digits as a percentage of the whole house heat load, even if it isn't being actively heated. Every square foot of above grade block wall loses about 0.5 BTU/hr for every degree-F difference. So even if the basement coasts at 50F when it's +5F outside (Rochester's 99% outside design temperature), every square foot of exposed wall is losing 0.5 x 50F= 22.5 BTU/hr. (The heat loss per square foot per degree-F number is called the "U-factor", or sometimes "U-value", which you may be familiar with on window specifications.) With even 200 square feet of exposed wall (you probably have more than that) that represents a 4500 BTU/hr, and that's just the above grade losses. The losses below grade will be less since the soil isn't +5F, but it adds up. If you insulate it to IRC 2015 code-minimum (R15 continuous insulation, or R5 continuous with an R13 studwall) the U-factor drops a full order of magnitude to ~0.050 BTU/hr per square foot per degree-F or a bit lower, but the basement will now idle along several degrees warmer, so it's really about an 85% reduction in heat loss rather than a 90% reduction.

Reducing the heat loss out of the basement makes the floor temperatures subtly warmer, and lowers the heat loads of those rooms, making it more likely that 170F water would be be sufficient for keeping up with the load using the existing radiation. Another solution would be to add more radiation to emit more heat at a lower temperature, but overall chipping away at the load is better for comfort, and lowers the heating bill.

There are lots of details to get right when insulating a foundation, but it's not a difficult DIY. A common mistake is to put up a fiberglass insulated studwall either butted right up to the block or concrete or with a 1" gap to avoid capillary draw of moisture from the foundation into the studs & insulation. Some even make it worse by adding polyethylene vapor barrier on the interior, trapping the moisture-susceptible wood in a high humidity environment.

There are multiple threads covering how to deal with it on this forum, but if you're interested I can go into it here in greater detail, but in your location (US climate zone 5A) a decent approach is to use 1" foil faced polyisocyanrate up against the foundation with seams taped, edges sealed, trapped to the wall with a 2x4/R13 studwall with NO VAPOR BARRIERS (kraft facers are OK, as long as there is no flooding history.) The other, sometimes cheaper way is to install 3" of reclaimed roofing polyiso against the foundation, held in place with 1x4 furring 24" on center through-screwed to the foundation with 5" masonry screws, with wallboard mounted to the furring. There are multiple vendors trading in used roofing foam in your area, some of whom occasionally advertise here.
 

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The difference between boiler and system bypass makes perfect sense. thanks

One observation I did make, and I am not sure if either my zone valve idea or the ball valve idea will help it:

I observed the system temp sitting around 85F since there was no call for spaceheat for quite some time.

I have the DHW boiler setpoint at 160F and the tank temp at 145F:

When the DHW call was being met, the spaceheat then called for heat. The DHW call was completed and then the system pump turned on.

For a short period, the incoming cool system temperature met the heat exchange that just completed heating the DHW and the delta T went as high as 75F. It dropped down to 20F shortly after this rollercoaster of delta t took place over maybe a 20 second period. As I am thinking about this, I am wondering how many hundreds of times over the last 6 years this has happened. Maybe none, maybe a lot. It seems like with the old settings though, it would have experienced the surge quite often during the cold months

I can either set the DHW to force the system pump to run while the DHW is being heated, force it not to run, or allow it to run as spaceheat calls are needed.

Not sure if this brief delta T spike is something that needs to be immediately addressed. I know the unit has a delta T lockout, but it did not trip.

DW
 
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Dana

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If you force/allow the radiation pump to dump heat into the zone to run every time the water heater is calling for heat two things happen:

1: The water heater only gets part of the boiler's output when the radiation pump is running

2: There is heat going into a zone that doesn't need or even want it (like when it's 87F outside in July.)

With a boiler this size it's best to give priority to the water heater, suppressing space heating whenever the water heater needs heat. That ensures that the water heater will recover quickly enough to never run out, and quickly enough that the house won't cool off very much during that recovery period. It has about 1.5x the burner output of a typical 50 gallon standalone tank, but not 2x. If the water heater is sharing that with radiation that is emitting 3/4 of the heat on a really cold day it can take forever for the water heater to come back up to temp.

Short duration high delta-Ts are to be expected, and I'm sure the engineers at Lochinvar were pretty conservative about the settings on their delta-T lockout. If it's not tripping it's unlikely to be doing any damage, despite multiple 20 second excursions per day outside of what would work as a normal operating delta-T. The delta-T during a cold-start of the water heater (with the water at room temp or cooler at the beginning of the burn) is pretty substantial, lasting quite a bit longer than 20 seconds, but under 20 minutes.

If the outdoor reset curve is dialed-in well there shouldn't be long stretches where the system isn't calling for heat. With it dialed-in perfectly the call for heat would be nearly continuous any time the outdoor temp was in the mid 50sF or cooler. Overnight setbacks would have that characteristic, but using overnight setbacks requires either setting up the BOOST function to have reasonable recovery times, or a higher than optimal outdoor reset curve, which causes more on/off cycling.

If it only took 20 seconds for the high delta-T to go away you must have low thermal mass heat emitters such as fin-tube baseboard(?).
How much of what type of heat emitter is there on this system (broken down zone by zone)?
 

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I believe that within the circulator pump settings, the only way to force the system pump to stop when the dhw pump is running is to set the dhw as a zone instead of a separate priority load. You can't force run/stop on the system pump with any other dhw setting other than zone.

If I do give priority to the water heater but the system pump runs, during the summer I would think it would just recirculate through the system bypass ball valve we talked about earlier, so that would be a slight loss for the dhw, but on the other hand it would help with the delta T spike, but it would also lower the delta T of both the dhw and system. I feel like there is no ideal solution with my current setup. I need post-purge but it is at the expense of efficiency...

The high delta T went away so quickly because it made the output temp of the boiler drop in that amount of time.

I do have fin tube baseboards. Off the top of my head, zone 1 has 40 ft and zone 2 has roughly the same, maybe a few feet less.

I plan on installing a 3rd zone in one half of the basement shortly which will be roughly 25 ft.

The system shuts off for long enough periods of time to allow the system temp to drop to 80-90F. To dial the outdoor reset in, would you recommend gradually dropping the low outdoor temp until the unit runs more? I believe it is currently at 20F. I am not currently using the night setback or boost as I am not sure how to approach their dialing in and how to incorporate them with the outdoor reset curve settings. Can you offer any input on this?

I would think that the ability for the system to shut off for such long periods would be a good problem to have?
 

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The ability of the system to shut off for long periods of time means it has been running at a much higher than optimal water temperature, and even overshooting the thermostat's setpoint. That's a significant efficiency hit with a condensing boiler.

For highest efficiency it needs to run at the lowest temperature, with as few on/off cycles as possible, but with long burn-cycles. When the entering water temperature (EWT) at the boiler is above 130F there is zero condensing, and it'll be doing about 86-87% combustion efficiency. When it's above 150F it'll be more like 85%. The efficiency sweet spot starts at 125F EWT where it hits ~90%, and it increases rapidly as the EWT drops to about 115F, but more slowly thereafter.

To hit 95% efficiency the entering water temperature at the boiler needs to be ~120F or less, and burning at the lowest firing rate. With 40' of baseboard on a zone you can run the system at 125F out and probably get there. A 120F can emit about 8000 BTU/hr, which is about 20% less than the minimum fire output of the boiler, which is fine if you program the DIFFERENTIAL to 15-20F or so, and the OFFSET to 0-5F or so. With a 20F or higher temperature swing to slew through from the bottom of DIFFERENTIAL to the top of OFFSET the boiler will cycle/off when only one zone is calling for heat, but it probably won't short-cycle. You'll be able to play around with that and tweak it to where the burn times and cycles per hour are reasonable.

With fin-tube baseboard the output becomes very non-linear with water temperature once it's below 115-120F, so something like 120F-125F should be set up as your minimum operating setpoint independent of the curve.

To figure out a starting point for the cold outdoor temp/high water temp at the other end of the curve, first, run a fuel-use based load calculation to come up with a BTUs per degree-hour constant, and from that derive about how many BTU/hr it takes to heat the place at +5F (your 99% outside design temperature), and how many BTU/hr it takes to heat the place at whatever point you have picked on the curve set-up. (If you've been running the boiler mostly above 140F, assume a boiler efficiency of 87% for those calculations.) Then divide the BTU/hr number by the number of feet of baseboard. The BTU/hr per foot of baseboard will determine the average water temperature (AWT) needed for the baseboard to emit that much heat. Most baseboard will deliver about 500-525 BTU/hr per running foot at an AWT of 170F, which in most systems corresponds to an EWT of about 180F. At an AWT of 120F it'll deliver about 200-225 BTU/hr per foot, which happens at an EWT of about 125F. You can either look up the specs on YOUR baseboard if you know the manufacturer & model, or use this ratings chart as a rough guide for ball-parking it.

For example, say over a wintertime billing period you went through 250 therms, and from a nearby weatherstation data there were 1200 heating degree-days (base 65F) between meter reading dates. That means you used 250/1200= 0.21 therms per degree-day (rounding to 2 significant digits), which at 100,000 BTU/therm is 21,000 BTU/degree-day But at 87% efficiency only 0.87 x 21,000 = 18,270 BTU of heat stayed inside the heating system and house (the other 13% went up the flue).

An a 24 hour day, that means the house uses a 18,270/24= 677 BTU per degree-hour. Since we used base 65F heating degree days, the presumptive temperature at which the heat load is zero is 65F. Your 99% outside design temp is +5F, so you have 65F-5F= 60F heating degrees.

So to keep the place comfortable at +5F outdoors takes about 677 BTU/degree-hour x 60F heating degrees= 40,620 BTU/hr.

The load of 40,620 BTU/hr divided by 80' of fin-tube baseboard is 508 BTU/hr, which if you refer to that ratings chart happens at an AWT of about 170F, which takes a EWT of ~180F. So as a starting point for tweaking the curve you'd program the low end of the curve for 180F out at +5F, then see if it keeps up on cold days. If it does, try backing off the boiler temp by 5F every cold winter day until you wake up in the AM and the boiler has been running 100% of the time, and the house is a degree or three below the thermostat setpoint. Then bump up the water temp back up by 4F- it should eventually catch up and satisfy the thermostats. If it does, back off 1F every night until you wake up in the AM and the house is within 1F of the thermostat's setpoint.

For the warmer weather end of the curve, in condensing mode the WHN055 is good for about 10,000 BTU/hr. So with the 677BTU/degree-hour constant it means the outdoor temperature above-which the boiler has to cycle be 10,000/677= ~15F cooler than the 65F balance point, or ~50F. The ratio of 10,000 BTU/hr into 80' of baseboard is 125 BTU/hr per foot, which fin-tube would theoretically deliver at 95-100F AWT, but it's so non-linear that can't be counted on, so we'll attack it from another angle.

If one sets the minimum boiler temp to be 120F, the AWT will be about 115F, and at that AWT the baseboard emits about 175 BTU/hr per foot. So for 80' of baseboard that delivers about 14,000 BTU/hr at your chosen minimum water temperature. At 677BTU/degree-hour the load of 14K happens about 14,000/677 BTU/hr = 21F cooler than the presumptive 65F zero-load point, or about 39F. So setting the minimum output temperature be 120F any time it's above 39F would be about right.

With these starting parameters, the boiler output temp will ramp smoothly from 120F at 39F up to 180F as the outdoor temperatures fall to 5F, and it should keep up pretty much most of the time. During colder weather do your curve-tweaking adjustments only on the cold-temp end of the curve, but when it gets to be above freezing at night, if it's not quite keeping up move the outdoor temperature for the crossover to minimum water temperature up 5F at a time, then start backing down until you find the perfect balance where the house temperatuer just barely keeps up at night without satisfying the thermostats quickly.

When the outdoor temperatures are in the 50F range you can start looking at tweaking in DIFFERENTIAL and OFFSET numbers. Initially set the OFFSET to 0F, and the DIFFERENTIAL to 20F. If the burns during light-load days with just one zone calling for heat are shorter than 3 minutes, increase the DIFFERENTIAL by 5F at a time, but not to more than 30F (which would mean the system has to cool to 90F or lower before it re-fires, which may take too long and the house might cool off). If that doesn't quite get it to where the burn times are at least 3 minutes and <10 burns per hour, start bumping up the OFFSET. With a minimum boiler temp of 120F, taking the OFFSET higher than 10F would take it out of the condensing range at the end of a burn, so hopefully you won't have to go there.
 

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thanks Dana. I am going to have to re-read this a few times. but at first glance, can you elaborate on how the incoming water cannot be above 130F to achieve condensing, against how you had said to set the low outdoor temp to 180F. Would this not cause a consistent delta T of +50F?

I am now thinking I should do these calculations, change the settings, and see how the system operates before putting the ball valve bypass in to allow post purge... Perhaps it will not even be needed. I have probably been chasing a high setpoint temp for nothing...
 

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below is the chart for both of my circulators (Grundfos UPS15-58FC), and I can see that the baseboard btu output varies based on flow, which would vary based on the circulator being set on low/med/high. How would I determine the figure to use on the left column (feet of head?) to find the flow rate per given setting. Is it just a matter of measuring total run length and adding a given amount per T/elbow/etc?

thank you again, Dana, for all your input with this.

DW

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thanks Dana. I am going to have to re-read this a few times. but at first glance, can you elaborate on how the incoming water cannot be above 130F to achieve condensing, against how you had said to set the low outdoor temp to 180F. Would this not cause a consistent delta T of +50F?

I am now thinking I should do these calculations, change the settings, and see how the system operates before putting the ball valve bypass in to allow post purge... Perhaps it will not even be needed. I have probably been chasing a high setpoint temp for nothing...

The outdoor reset curve adjust the boiler's output temperature in response to the outdoor temperature. The entering water temperature at the boiler will track up and down with the boiler's output temperature based on how much heat is being emitted by the radiation, returning cooler water to the boiler, and the boiler will adjust it's firing rate to raise whatever entering water temperature happens to be in order to be able to deliver the output temperature setpoint happens to be at that time.

When the boiler's output temperature is high (say 160F or higher), the heat being emitted by the baseboard is high, and the delta-T between the entering water temp and boiler output will be something like 15-20F, assuming "reasonable" flow rates. When the output temperature is low (say, under 140F) the heat emitted by the baseboard is much lower, and the delta-T will be something on the order of 5-10F, and gets smaller as the water temperature gets lower, since less and less heat is given up to the room as the water temp falls. So at 180F out you can expect the entering water temperature to be around 160F give or take 5F, and at 130F out the entering water temperature will be ~125F, give or take a couple of degrees.

The beginning of condensing for most boilers is somewhere around 125F , it varies a bit with the boiler model, the exact natural gas mix, even the altitude. (The theoretical best-case scenario for the beginning of condensing is 130F, but in practice it's always a few degrees cooler.) Above 130F entering water temp there is no condensing with any manufacturer's boiler, and the combustion effiency is no more than ~87%. At the beginning of condensing the combustion efficiency is about 88-89%, but rises quickly as the entering water temperatures fall.

What this means is at the temperatures you're running now there is NO condensing efficiency- even at minimum fire there isn't enough heat emitted by the baseboard to deliver sub-130F return water. But if you set it up to run as cool as possible, it will spend quite a bit of time during the heating season in the condensing range.



condensing%20curve.jpg


The above graph is a rough estimate, assuming a constant firing rate. The one below shows the knee of the condensing curve for what's probably a propane boiler rather than natural gas (propane exhaust has a higher dew point than NG), but shows the effects firing rate has on the condensing efficiency:

boilergraph-1.jpg


So the lower the firing rate is and the cooler the entering water temperature is, the higher the raw efficiency is. The net efficiency will remain pretty high even when cycling on/off at the minimum firing rate, as long as the burn times are long enough, and the number of ignition cycles per hour remains low. Every flue purge blows some heat out the exhaust, and every ignition cycle wastes a bit of fuel, which cuts in to average efficiency, even when it's well into the condensing temperature zone.
 

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below is the chart for both of my circulators (Grundfos UPS15-58FC), and I can see that the baseboard btu output varies based on flow, which would vary based on the circulator being set on low/med/high. How would I determine the figure to use on the left column (feet of head?) to find the flow rate per given setting. Is it just a matter of measuring total run length and adding a given amount per T/elbow/etc?

thank you again, Dana, for all your input with this.

DW

View attachment 44098

That graph is pumping-head vs. flow rate. The calculations for pumping head are complex- most designers use software models, but it does involve the diameter and "effective length" of the plumbing, the pumping head of the heat exchanger in the boiler etc. In practical terms when assessing an existing system the delta-T pretty much tells you everything you need to know. Does the WHN055 report a flow rate in any of the menus? (That would be even better.)

The difference in output doesn't change with flow nearly as quickly as with temperature, and you don't want to over-pump or under-pump the system. Under-pumping puts a higher delta-T on the boiler, and sometimes can even be below the minimum specified flow through the heat exchanger, which can caust micro-boil on the heat exchanger to go macro, creating a sizzle & pop (or even banging) as the bubbles collapse, and lowering the heat exchange efficiency. Too high a pumping rate erodes the plumbing, and lowers the delta-T, but increases the amount of heat coming out of the baseboard by a small amount. There's a solid range in the middle where the boiler is happy.
 

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There is not a live flow rate displayed in any menues. I currently have the pumps both set to their lowest to try and get the inlet temp as low as possible. The delta T as I have been observing is around 30F and the inlet is periodically dropping below 135F.

Aside from the noises you described, is there any way to determine if the flow is too little? I can see on the chart that the lowest setting is capable of producing enough flow, assuming the pumping head is in a certain range, which is unknown to me.

What would you suggest setting the DHW setpoint/diff/offset at? I have the DHW water temp at 145 as I had read that water heaters have a certain bacteria that dies above 140F. I have the setpoint at 145F as I thought that keeping it low would be better? I have a mixing valve on it and it is 27 gallon Squire. I can't think of a single time in the last 6 years that we have ever run out of hot water.
 

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A delta-T of 30F is pretty good, and as long as you don't hear a hissing/sizzling on the boiler's heat exchangers at the lower flow it's pretty good. Delta-Ts of 20-30F are a good range for most systems. Going 50F and higher can mechanically stress some boilers (don't know about this one.) Anything from 10-30F is "in the range"- most hydronic designers shoot for a delta-T of about 20F at a boiler output temp of 180F, which becomes a delta-T of about 10F when the output temp drops to 130F.

But a delta-T of 30F also means your average water temperature is lower, emitting less heat from the baseboards. If it's 180F out, 150F back the AWT is 165F, which delivers less something like 475 BTU/hr per foot of baseboard. If it's 180F out 170F back it's an AWT of 175F, putting out about 550 BTU/hr per foot.

A 140F storage temp is fine from a pathogen/health point of view, as long as you aren't running out of hot water at that tank temperature. To get reasonable heat exchange efficiency out of the coil inside the tank the boiler needs to deliver water ~20F hotter than your storage temperature. (So if it's set to 145F, feed it 165F or hotter water.) Even 120F water is hot enough to keep leginella colonies from growing, but it doesn't kill them. If you back off on the storage temp there is less standby loss, but you may run into capacity issues. Cranking the tank up to 140+ for a month once or twice a year would kill off any bacteria that somehow got started.
 

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OK thank you. I am noticing that even after I have significantly lowered the outdoor reset boiler setpoints, the boiler is still shutting off for 15 min+. Late last night it was around 16F and at that part of the reset curve the setpoint was around 155F. The differential is at 20F and I had the thermostats slightly higher than normal just to see if it could keep up. If I want to tweak the setpoint lower to see if the spaceheat needs can still be met, would I want to drop the low reset curve boiler temp from 180F to 175F, or would I want to drop the low outdoor temp from 5F to 0F.

I would estimate that along the reset curve, there will be certain outdoor temps that correspond to a boiler setpoint that is ideal, and some that will be higher than necessary. Would I be better off continuing to decrease the low end of the curve so that there are no points at which the boiler setpoint is too high, and for the parts of the curve where the setpoint is too low, allow the boost to increase it by 5F after maybe 20 min?
 

Dana

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In general it's best to just fine-tune the reset curve. Boost is better used for dealing with overnight setback recovery ramps.
 

Dwassner

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OK. But if I want to fine tune it, should I lower the low outdoor boiler setpoint or should I lower the low outdoor temp?
 
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