Kind of crazy idea - adapting a Japanese Toto Neorest

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by jbourne, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. jbourne

    jbourne New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2020
    Location:
    Japan
    Hi all,

    So I have something of an absolutely crazy idea and I need someone to either talk me down from it, or better yet, help me figure this out, cause I think I can make this happen.

    So the backstory is this: I can get my hands on a Japanese market Toto Neorest (one of the latest models), for a little under $2K. Not cheap, but nothing like the eye-popping prices ($10K?! I'd rather buy a car!) they seem to command in North America. The only problem is... the piping is different, so I wanted to sound out some thoughts here from y'all who certainly have far more experience than I do on this on how crazy my plan is.

    First of all, the water hoses have same dimensions (oddly, they're imperial) but the threading is a little different. This is fine; I have previously brought over several washlets from Japan and with some Home Depot magic, they install just fine, there are enough adapters stateside to make this work. So water supply is not a problem, I have them in my house now.

    Where I'm running into a theoretical challenge is with the rough-in. In the US, rough-ins are 10/12/14", whereas in Japan, they are 200mm on average, and you can get an adjustable rough-in adapter that makes it go anywhere between 150mm and 305mm. That's not bad in itself, but the shape of the Japanese drain hole is completely different from the US one: here is a guy installing a toilet, this is a typical drain hole in Japan (first off, it sticks out - they don't use wax seals, they basically cover the flange with a certain glue-like substance and seat it on top). I believe also the diameter of the drainage is different, and the screw holes are likely different.

    Where I am looking for advice is this.

    1. This is the US version of the Neorest, side cut. You can see the grey floor-mounted default 12" floor drain socket.
    2. I do not know whether the vertical spacing between the floor and the top of the floor drain (the rubber seal) that the Neorest lowers onto is the same between the 750H and the Japanese one I'm looking at (the Neorest AH). The North American drawings are here, but I can't find any equally detailed Japanese ones.

    So my proposed solution is this: Toto Japan sells an adjustable floor drain for the odd houses that do not have a 200mm rough-in, which looks like this. The detailed PDF is here and a picture is here. It is available in two pipe sizes: 74mm (older toilets) and 64mm (newer toilets). I also notice that Toto USA sells the Unifit adapter.

    So all this backstory where I'm basically wondering: am I crazy to try to get a Unifit, cut both it, and the Japanese adjustable Toto drainage pipe, then weld them together (or 3D print an adapter pipe or something and glue it?) so that the Neorest end is the Japanese one (so I am not risking any height problems) and the drain connection is a US one (so that I don't run into floor incompatibilities)? This would allow me to keep length the same as "stock", so no siphoning problems etc, just make sure it "connects" to the floor. I think I'm not missing anything here?

    Not sure if this writeup makes sense, I'm writing this as I think, but I would appreciate someone ripping my logic apart or else telling me I am onto something here.

    Thanks very much!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2020
  2. T-Dogg

    T-Dogg New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2020
    Location:
    Montreal
    I don't understand why you would do any of the above- it's penny wise and pound foolish.

    You can't just start kludging parts together and hoping for the best- that could lead to an expensive disaster that your insurance company could easily deny coverage on.

    If you want a Neorest, yes, I know it's expensive, and maybe the thought of paying that much for a toilet stings a bit.

    But I assure you it's a purchase that will deliver tremendous long term value, so if you need to save up a bit, so be it. Your unit will come with a US warranty as well.

    You can likely do a fair bit better than the online pricing you see by shopping around locally. As a backup, check Ebay or local classifieds and see if you can find a floor model or used unit if you really can't stomach paying the cost of a new unit. Forget the kludge-job.

    I picked up a local Neorest 500 that was purchased but never installed by the original owner. I'm currently hunting for a Neorest 700h for the master. You can find one for around $4k new f you shop around, which is a fair price. You may be able to do even better if you get lucky.
     
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  4. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    I love it.. I've been thinking the toto unifits should be field cut pieces rather than 10/12/14".

    The first photo of the side cut and the PDF drawing show 2 different unifits. The cutout looks like its an actual flush valve while the PDF looks like its just a passive adapter / typical unifit. As long as its just a unifit and the rubber seals on the porcelain.. then as long as you can safely modify the other end you should be able to make it work. Might be an interesting call into tech support tho.

    which model is it?

    I have adapted floor mounted rear outlet toilets meant for european market to fit old 4 bolt wall hung closet carriers for customers who wanted a modern looking toilet without major work in their neighbors condos.. it can be done.
     
  5. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Would like to know if the OP went through with the idea.. I'm installing a 750H
     
  6. jbourne

    jbourne New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2020
    Location:
    Japan
    I didn't abandon it. Sorry - forum didn't send me any notices that there were posts into this thread, oops. What happened is I can't figure out if I'm staying in the current house or not, so the Neorest is sitting in its original box for now, and I'm going to get it done once I either move, or decide to stay, as I don't want to take it off again!

    That said: to the BEST of my sleuthing skills, a similar Neorest is for sale in North America. Since I figured it's unlikely the actual bowl unit would be significantly different, I decided that I would take a chance and get the rough-in from the US version - it looks functionally similar to the Japanese one on the bowl end, just the rough in is adapted to the North American setup. I also got a gasket, just in case, and the install template. The part numbers were TTHU6297 (rough in unit), TTHU9652 (gasket) and T0GU9221 (floor diagram installation template so it's easier to drill holes).

    It's all sitting in a box here, and I just realized, I should probably at least look at them to see if I made the dumbest mistake of my life (or close), or if I scored.
     
  7. jbourne

    jbourne New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2020
    Location:
    Japan
    Right, I remember why I never opened them up. I was afraid I'd find something I didn't like, and since I wasn't sure whether I'm staying or going, I wanted to kick that can down the road as far as I could :)

    So here are the two rough-in assemblies and the associated templates. The US one is about 1" taller, but the size of the gasket and so on seems to match, so I have to look underneath the bowl to see if it's just a question of feeding it in deeper into the rough-in, or if this will be an issue. I don't see this as a huge problem, though, as I have the option of either cutting the rough-in unit by 1", or just lifting the entire bowl assembly by 1" (put some spacers on the ground or something if it comes to that). As for the X/Y axis, looking at the template and the side-by-side pictures, I think I am safe there; as best I can tell, they should align. Righthand template is Japanese, the top edge of the template is supposed to go flush against the wall (they have 6.5" rough ins in Japan, and the outlet diameter is narrower).

    Measuring from the edge of the paper on the US one to the center of the drainpipe gives me 11" which is a little odd; so I will assume my rough in is 12", which means the entire unit assembly will be 1" further away from the wall than this template suggests.

    Can anyone suggest anything I can measure right now to see if this will fit, or will only an actual test fit at this point answer my question?

    Thanks all and I apologise for the long delay in posting.... international moves never easy.

    @T-Dogg - we are neighbours btw. :)
     

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  8. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    So if you can bolt that japanese unifit to a 12" rough in as is.. the neorest would be an additional 6" out from the wall correct? The US unifit would move it back but potentially raise the neorest if the porcelain bottoms out inside or interferes with the flushing mechanism.

    Seems the porcelain drain spigot is really long. If you were brave/dumb, you could shave a bit of it off to match the height of the N.American unifit.

    I think the unit you're installing is the RH model? I'm installing the same one in our office when I get a chance to fiddle with the water supply existing 1/4" too high to fit in the dead space.
     
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