How to Repipe

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by NeedPlumbingHelp, Jul 14, 2021.

  1. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Location:
    Kansas
    You will have to click the picture to see the pipe that is saddled on.

    Hello. I’m trying to repipe underneath two toilets, a shower, and a sink.

    The picture is through the ceiling upward.

    I have already replaced some pipe, and plan to remove the pictured Fernco fittings with more replacement pipe. My questions are…

    1. Is there any way to replace the tee on the horizontal run with a wye? I know tees aren’t for horizontal runs, but I don’t know how to put a wye in with the limited drop between the toilet directly above to the horizontal run.

    2. There is a 1 1/2 inch vent line between the vertical piping and the horizontal run. It appears to be saddled on somehow to each line. Do I need to duplicate those saddle attachments in PVC form, or is there another way to do the venting that would be more efficient/easier, when doing my pipe replacement from ABS to PVC?

    Thanks in advance.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  2. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    That 1 1/2 inch line is connected between the vertical piping and horizontal piping. It doesn’t go to the roof.

    Is that setup some form of venting the vertical part of the piping?

    There is another toilet on the opposite side of the piping in the picture. It is on the same level as the toilet in the picture.
     
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  4. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    0) The unshielded couplings in your picture are only for use underground. Above ground use requires a shielded coupling such as Fernco Proflex.

    1) Yes, the tee should be a wye plus (street) 45, available as a one piece fitting called a combo. It looks to me like you have adequate vertical space.

    2) I don't know what's going on with that 1-1/2". It should not be a dry vent, as dry vent take off have to be vertical. It is likely a drain that is improperly connected to the 3" horizontal drain.

    How about a larger view or diagram of all the bathroom DWV? Since you are replacing it, you can redesign the layout to fix the above problems.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  5. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Thanks for the detailed reply.

    I didn’t use the shielded ones because I couldn’t find any that had both sides for PVC or ABS, because joints between those are normally glued.

    I have attached several pictures so you can see everything I see.

    Should there be a vent somewhere in these pics, or could it be farther down the line somewhere?

    Can you provide a link for the plumbing part you are referring to? I’m not sure which part you are referring to.

    The pic to the right of the original goes to a sink. The pic to the left of the original goes to a bathtub and down the way to more piping. Could I replace the piping going to each fixture without doing any demo inside the bathroom?

    Also, I am concerned about the copper pipe in one of the pictures. Is it leaking at the joint? I see water damage on the ceiling underneath it. If the house is 45 or so years old, should I just replace all the copper, to avoid having to rip the ceiling open again, in the somewhat near future?

    Thanks a lot.
     

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  6. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I can't quite put all the pictures together in my mind, so I think you'd need to prepare a diagram. Figuring out what is connected to that saddle tee is important. A saddle tee is not something you want to put back in. A dry vent on the lav could vent the WC and tub as well.

    As to the coupling, see e.g. Fernco 3005-33 or Mission CP-33.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  7. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Thanks.

    You can see the other end of the pipe for that saddle tee in the picture that says “other side of original pic.” It is the PVC elbow. It used to be another ABS saddle tee right there.

    Can you provide a part number or link for the wye part you referenced?

    What do you think about the copper pipe question?

    How can I make the diagram?
     
  8. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    So in the original pic, there's a 3" PVC san-tee on its back, and now from the "opposite side" pic it looks like just above that san-tee on its back, there's an upright 3" san-tee, whose side entry connects to the yet another san-tee on its back, this time with a 1-1/2" side entry. And this third san-tee has the other WC connected to its inlet, and the 1-1/2" side entry connects to that saddle tee in the original picture.

    Is there anything else connected to the 1-1/2" line? If not, that's a really bizarre configuration. If there's a 1-1/2" riser through the roof attached to it, it's just a bad attempt at venting both WCs.

    On the copper pipe, a closeup picture would help. From the one you posted, it could just be an accumulation of excess solder at the bottom of the solder cup back from when it was originally installed, which would be no problem. But it's not clear.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  9. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    You got it. Great job. There is nothing but 1 1/2 inch line with elbows connected between the sanitary tee on it’s back, and the horizontal run. Does that help with venting in any way possible?

    Will I be able to replace those 2 sanitary tees that are butted up with, instead, a wye and something else to improve that portion where it meets the horizontal run that we previously discussed? Did you happen to have a link or part number for the wye you mentioned?

    What is a WC?

    I have attached a closer up picture of the copper pipe. There is damage on the drywall ceiling, underneath it.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  11. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

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    On the water pipe, looks like a leak. Not sure about the best repair approach, if it's isolated and should be repaired locally, or if there is reason to think that 45 year old copper is near end of life.

    As to the DWV, what you need to do is make a scaled floor plan of the bathroom(s) and walls, with all the fixture locations, and all the locations of the DWV pipes you can see or know about. Then someone here can advise you as to a better configuration for rebuilding the DWV with proper venting.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  12. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Thanks.

    Is there a free program that you can use to build DWV systems?

    I noticed when going outside that there is a vent pipe coming out of the roof just about in line with where I am working in the house, however, there are only 2 fixtures that I can’t see the plumbing for, 1 of which is on a higher ceiling.

    Would they have vented a sink, and not vented 2 toilets, a sink, and 1 shower?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  13. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    I guess I’m just at a loss as to how there is a vent pipe coming out of the roof above where I’m working, but I see no pipes going up into the floor from below that aren’t WCs.

    Perhaps the shower I can’t see the piping for is vented.

    If it is on the other side of this 2x8 or 2x10, would I need to drill a hole to connect it over here somewhere? The shower, with possible vent, is on the other side.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2021
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    When I'm plumbing a bathroom, anything coming off the horizontal is a wye or a combo. No tees or santees.
    If I'm using a coupling, it's either one that I glue up, or it's one with the metal wrap to prevent sagging. The rubber couplings with hose clamps don't last very long.
     
  15. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Thanks for the reply, Terry. I want to add a wye, instead of a sanitary tee, on the horizontal run, but I think it added like 2 or 3 inches to the depth of the drop. I don’t think I have that much room, but I will recheck.

    I have an update on this. The pipe that goes to one of the showers appears to go to an s trap, and it has another sanitary tee on it that goes back to the other shower. At some point, it must go up to a vent back there because I see it coming out of the roof.

    I’m assuming that would count as a vent for the horizontal run? Maybe they saddled that 1 1/2 pipe to try to vent the pipe that goes to the 2 toilets in the initial picture on this thread.

    I have attached the pics.

    What I have circled goes up to one of the showers with the s-trap, which has a sanitary tee, which appears to go back to the other shower, which then vents. You can see the pipe way in the back in the one pic.

    What do you guys think?
     

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  16. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Anyone have any thoughts on the previous post? I could really use the help. I would like to tackle this tomorrow, if possible. Thanks.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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  18. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    I asked what I could use to make that. No one responded. I could not find anything with a Google search.
     
  19. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

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    Pencil and paper, and take a photo with your phone to upload after shrinking? Look up isometric drawing.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  20. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

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    Orlando, Florida
    The copper pipe may not be as bad as it looks. Most of what you see is old flux. Too much was applied and after the joint was soldered, it was not wiped down. Over time the acid flux absorbs moisture and it it turns into that crud. First try cleaning it with a 3m Scotch Brite green scrubbing pad. After most of the crud is removed, use OOO steel wool and it will clean the copper and fittings to a bright copper. Keep an eye on it and most likely there is no leak.

    https://www.scplumbing.co.uk/helpful-info/flux-causes-pipe-corrosion
     
  21. NeedPlumbingHelp

    NeedPlumbingHelp Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks, everyone. I have attached a drawing. My question is…

    Will the roof vent be sufficient for the toilets without the 1 1/2 inch pipe saddled between the horizontal run to the sewer and the other spot?

    Do I need to figure out a way to repipe with that 1 1/2 inch line still in place?

    Hopefully the drawing makes sense with all the pictures I have uploaded.
     

    Attached Files:

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