How to remodel basement laundry after moving washer/dryer

[landsbergfan]

Hello all. I have used this site as a great resource and found enough info to where I think I know the answer, but want to make a unique thread to be sure. Thanks in advance for the help!

I am moving my washer and dryer for a basement remodel with the goal putting them side by side and tucking them back as close as possible to the wall to the right of the electrical panel. A new sink (standard laundry tub) will go in the corner, close to where the right tub of the current sink is. My current set up drains to the sink, and the easiest way to remodel would be to stretch the hose from the right of the electrical panel below and over to the sink, but I wanted a clean washer/dryer box installation within the walls I frame.

I sketched out a picture of the corner where this is being installed with my planned drain in yellow (either 2" or 1.5") and the vent in blue. The drain and vent will run along the right wall and then 90 to the left wall. Drain will tie into the 1.5" line at the main stack and the vent will be run into the existing vent for the main stack. Total "horizontal" length of the drain would be about 11-12 feet.

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Is this the proper set up? The vent on the right wall will be on the opposite side of the panel, but well within the 5' of the Ptrap. Drain will be sloped properly. I would really like to have a clean install, but I want to make sure I am not creating a problem when just draining into the laundry tub would be just fine.

 

[Reach4]

I think you should move the vent for the sink to the trap arm rather than where you show it.

If PA used UPC, there would be code limits about how high (or low) the trap for a laundry standpipe should be from the floor. PA uses IPC, which is more permissive. I don't find such a limit for IPC, but it may be there.

 

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[landsbergfan]

I think you should move the vent for the sink to the trap arm rather than where you show it.

If PA used UPC, there would be code limits about how high (or low) the trap for a laundry standpipe should be from the floor. PA uses IPC, which is more permissive. I don't find such a limit for IPC, but it may be there.

Thank you for the feedback. My understanding was that the standpipe had to be a minimum of 18" above the trap, but less than 42" above the trap. I hadn't factored in a the code for the actual trap itself. Factoring in the drain slope and where it ties into the main stack, I would estimate the trap will be about 10-12" from the floor (I'll measure after work).

My plan for the sink drain, which may not be clear from the pic, is to come straight out through the wall. I suppose I could run a vent up before santeeing into the drain, it would just be pretty close to the drywall itself instead of having everything back within the framing.

 

[Reach4]

I would estimate the trap will be about 10-12" from the floor (I'll measure after work).

Even UPC would be happy with that.

I am not a plumber. One of the plumbers may prescribe a good way to vent your sink.

 

[landsbergfan]

Even UPC would be happy with that.

I am not a plumber. One of the plumbers may prescribe a good way to vent your sink.

Appreciate it either way. I looked into that kind of install specifically and it looks like the best way would actually be to vent it vertically and then tee it into the drain from above. I have that window above, but I should still have enough room.

 

[wwhitney]

The National Electrical Code has some limitations on where you can run plumbing in relation to that electrical panel.

First, the stud bay that holds the panel itself, no plumbing is allowed there. That entire stud bay is reserved for electrical wiring. NEC 110.26(E)(1).

Second, the electrical panel needs an unobstructed working space in front of it, no plumbing allowed there. The space is 30" wide by 36" deep by 80" tall. The 30" width has to include the 14" width of the electrical panel, but the extra 16" of width can be split between the two sides of the panel any way you like. NEC 110.26(A).

Cheers, Wayne

 

[landsbergfan]

The National Electrical Code has some limitations on where you can run plumbing in relation to that electrical panel.

First, the stud bay that holds the panel itself, no plumbing is allowed there. That entire stud bay is reserved for electrical wiring. NEC 110.26(E)(1).

Second, the electrical panel needs an unobstructed working space in front of it, no plumbing allowed there. The space is 30" wide by 36" deep by 80" tall. The 30" width has to include the 14" width of the electrical panel, but the extra 16" of width can be split between the two sides of the panel any way you like. NEC 110.26(A).

Cheers, Wayne

I knew about the unobstructed work area, but not being able to run a drain line 2 feet below the panel will really throw a wrench into my plans.

 

[hj]

You CANNOT connect the vent to the existing drain system where you indicate. It MUST connect at least 42" above the floor above all existing fixtures.

 

[Reach4]

I knew about the unobstructed work area, but not being able to run a drain line 2 feet below the panel will really throw a wrench into my plans.

How about running the WM drain up, and across the ceiling, and then drop it down to a new standpipe to the left of the load center, or into the laundry tub.

Most washing machines are rated to let you pump up to 96 inches above the floor.

 

[landsbergfan]

You CANNOT connect the vent to the existing drain system where you indicate. It MUST connect at least 42" above the floor above all existing fixtures.

Can you explain this a bit more? It must connect to the existing vent above the existing fixtures? I’m wondering exactly where the issue is and if it might just be my sketch.

I am a bit confused how my vent sketch is much different from something like this below. Obviously I am not going straight up to the roof, I am going into the vent that goes to the roof, near the ceiling of the basement.

edit: I see now existing fixture would include fixtures on the first and second floor. I guess my confusion comes from having the vent pipe separate from the drain there. If I am tying into a pipe that is only used for venting, what is the issue?

 

[wwhitney]

More precisely the "dedicated equipment space" is just within the footprint of the electrical panel. So if want to run a drain line at an elevation below the panel, it would need to be at a projection behind the rear of the panel enclosure. If there's not enough room there currently, you might be able to move the panel forward 1 or 2 inches to create enough room.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[landsbergfan]

More precisely the "dedicated equipment space" is just within the footprint of the electrical panel. So if want to run a drain line at an elevation below the panel, it would need to be at a projection behind the rear of the panel enclosure. If there's not enough room there currently, you might be able to move the panel forward 1 or 2 inches to create enough room.

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah, That clears that up. I had planned on a 2x4 wall set about 7 inches off the concrete wall, so there is enough space to run the drain behind the wall. Thank you.

 

[Reach4]

The picture represents a top view of the load center held off of the wall by some amount.

1. Is it allowed to run your run a drain line 2 ft under the load center (breaker panel) where the yellow is? I think that is what #11 says.
2. Is it allowed to run your run a drain line 2 ft under the load center where the green is? I think that is what #12 proposes. I am thinking that would not be OK.

With that NM (non-metallic cable) connecting the load center, it looks like something could be slipped behind the box to move the load center farther away from the wall.

 

[landsbergfan]

The picture represents a top view of the load center held off of the wall by some amount.

1. Is it allowed to run your run a drain line 2 ft under the load center (breaker panel) where the yellow is? I think that is what #11 says.
2. Is it allowed to run your run a drain line 2 ft under the load center where the green is? I think that is what #12 proposes. I am thinking that would not be OK.

View attachment 55954
With that NM connecting the load center, it looks like something could be slipped to move the load center away from the wall.

Thanks. I would be in the green area

 

[Reach4]

edit: I see now existing fixture would include fixtures on the first and second floor. I guess my confusion comes from having the vent pipe separate from the drain there. If I am tying into a pipe that is only used for venting, what is the issue?

You could just use two AAVs for the vents.

 

[wwhitney]

A horizontal pipe in the green area violates the working space requirement, unless the pipe is below the floor, or more than 80" above the floor.

A horizontal pipe in the grey area marked "Load Center" violates the dedicated space requirement, unless it is below the floor, or above the bottom of the joists.

A horizontal pipe in the yellow area is fine.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[landsbergfan]

A horizontal pipe in the green area violates the working space requirement, unless the pipe is below the floor, or more than 80" above the floor.

A horizontal pipe in the grey area marked "Load Center" violates the dedicated space requirement, unless it is below the floor, or above the bottom of the joists.

A horizontal pipe in the yellow area is fine.

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks, Wayne. My mistake. I understood "wall" to be my finished wall, but I believe you are saying it refers to the outer concrete wall. In that case, I would be in the yellow area.

 

[landsbergfan]

You could just use two AAVs for the vents.

Yeah, I had read up on them a bit and felt they maybe weren't the best option, thinking if I could actually plumb this correctly it would be a more permanent and worry-free solution. However, it looks as though they are allowed by PA code, so I can install them in a way where they are accessible and move on.

 

[wwhitney]

Yes, I interpreted Reach4's drawing that the marked wall is the concrete wall, and that your new stud wall (not shown) would be in line with the panel, since the panel will be in the stud wall.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[landsbergfan]

It seems the main issue is now actually properly venting this system. I have attached a close up of the pipe I thought was a vent. It actually broke off when I was demoing with an obvious smell of sewer gas. I am not allowed to tie into this unless its a full 42" above existing fixtures? I don't believe I can get another vent up into the roof without removing a lot of the walls above, so probably doing AAV if this is true.