How do I change out a sewage elbow? (Pictures provided)

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by ddac, Dec 10, 2008.

  1. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

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    Nov 20, 2008
    Occupation:
    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Thats a fact, I just got back from a job where a handyman installed a hose connections on a dock area for a fish distributor. All the joints where soldered and wiped clean and half of them blew apart from the water hammer that was going on in this poorly installed system. Once I find my cable for my camera I will post pics. I just cut and cap all of them but one which I total re-piped from scratch so they still have a hose to clean things up. Going back on the 26th to redo the rest. I would of done them all tonight but I do not think they wanted to keep paying me double time, plus they needed the water turned back on.
     
  2. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    I'll repeat what I said earlier. A GOOD handyman is worth his weight in gold. Do you want people to judge all plumbers using the standard set by the worst among you??

    A good handyman also knows his limitations. I carry a list of the very best plumbers, electricians, painters, and carpenters in the area and do not hesitate to give referrals out if I do not feel I can do a job in the most professional manner. And, since I guarantee all my work, it would make no sense to take on jobs that I might have to come back and redo at no charge.
     
  3. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Occupation:
    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    You are then the exception to the rule. Here every handyman I ran into over the 18 years do a half ass job, or does not know their limitations.

    I have seen bad plumbers in my day as well. Most of them where from a time $$$ got you your license. One thing I will admit to my customers all I am is a plumber, I do not do concrete, tile, drywall and electrical work. If they want that stuff done and done proper they need to call a professional in those fields.
     
  4. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    Tech. Instructor
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    S. Maine
    whether or not you are good or not is immaterial in the eyes of the law. Like it as not, all states require a license to plumb. We can debate the merits of the system ad nauseaum but the law is the law. Even knowing ones limitations, though it sounds grand still leaves the door open to illegal activity. It is not up to the un-licensed individual to pick and choose those areas of the plumbing arena for which he feels qualified but rather it is within the domain of the state plumbing board.
     
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Dec 15, 2007
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Here in Ct Handymen are required to have a Home Improvement Contractor License. The State Department of Consumer Protection has been setting up "Sting Houses" to catch those who are not licensed or are bidding on work outside the scope of their license I.E. Plumbing & Electrical which require licenses in those fields. Power to Em! Happy Hunting! 100's nailed so far!
     
  6. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    Jul 30, 2008
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    Tech. Instructor
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    S. Maine
    These so called "handy men" come out of the woodwork when times get tough. For the mos part they are laid off construction workers with a very ridimentary knowledge of the trades. The arrogance of these guys who think they can do a little bit of everything with no training and no oversight pisses me off.
     
  7. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    There are other laws at play here, such as "the law of survival."

    People will do whatever they need to in order to survive tough times. The real arrogance is coming from you and some of the other plumbers. You would begrudge some poor, laid off guy a few bucks to put food on his table, while on the other thread, some are boasting about how many hundreds they made on a ten minute job and how "fat and happy" they are. Sometimes you people really disgust me.
     
  8. GabeS

    GabeS Remodel Contractor

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    Jan 10, 2007
    Occupation:
    Remodel contractor
    Location:
    Brooklyn NY
    well, there goes two different schools of thought. Interesting.
     
  9. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

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    Jan 2, 2006
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    I have seen carpenters doing repipes on homes, when they should have hired licensed plumbers.
    They ran entire three bath homes using 1/2" pipe,

    Because it was easy and cheap.

    No permit

    No inspection

    And then they cover the walls, and the homeowners have lousy plumbing for the life of the home.
     
  10. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

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    Jul 30, 2008
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    Tech. Instructor
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    S. Maine
    By your logic then there should be no professional licensing of any kind? Do circumstances dictate what is legal and proper? If things get bad enough will that make looting justified? Where does it end my friend? It is not arrogance on my part. I and many others of us, truley believe that plumbers protect the health of the nation. If you do not, perhaps a trip through the history of disease and pestulance will convince you otherwise though I doubt it. Very few of us are filthy rich in this profession. Most make a living and those that are highly motivated make a comfortable living. Worth noting however is that the average mean annual income for plumbers is a scant $ 44,000.00. Not exactly the killing that your seem to be accusing us of. It has taken me 37 years to get to where I am in the trade. I hold master licenses in several states. Teach high school plumbing & HVAC. Teach plumbing apprentice classes, year 1 and 2 and teach the plumbing license re-certification seminars that our state requires to hold a license. I am not in this to rip anyone off nor are the vast majority of my collegues in the trade. We plumb because we enjoy the work and we know that "ripping off" our customers is no way to sustain a business. I get the feeling that your comments are mostly made to antagonize the members and see what sort of reaction you can get. I am sure that a few will jump on your wagon, but most of us are proud of the work we do and understand the need to license the profession.


    WREX
     
  11. burleymike

    burleymike New Member

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    Nov 4, 2008
    Location:
    Idaho
    That must be the guy who did my house back in 1958. He used 1/2 galvanized for the whole house. Now you can imagine with 50 years of corrosion in that 1/2 pipe how much flow we have.

    Of course some of the plumbers around here today don't care much either. One guy drives around with a whole bunch of 20' sticks of Pex on his truck right out in the sun.

    Then there are the refrigeration hacks that think adding some more refrigerant is just as good as fixing the leak. The customer will just keep calling them back to "fix" it again.
     
  12. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    All I am saying is that "natural law" will always trump man-made laws, and there is nothing you or anybody else can do about it. If someone is laid-off and their unemployment benefits have run out, they will do whatever they can to support themselves and their family. If they can get odd jobs fixing things or painting or whatever, they will do it. And if someone is stupid enough to let an unqualified and inexperienced person do a complete repiping on their house, then they deserve to suffer the consequences... another natural law.

    BTW, if hordes of unemployed people become handymen, it will affect the handyman business much more than it will affect the plumbing business. Where I live, the average wait for a plumber is 2-4 wks, while the average handymen only last about a month, before they have to move elsewhere because of lack of business.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  13. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

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    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Dude, thing is I am not fat and happy. Making a good buck on a holiday is more like a bonus. But here is the thing about service plumbers it is a feast and famine job, yes we make a decent dollar here and there, but we must save that money for when the phones do not ring. The other thing that drives up our prices is that we have to compete against unlicensed guys that do not have insurance, license , bonds and permits to do the work. our company must spend over 25K a month to stay legal and to stay alive with our advertising. If the handymen, unlicensed guys that call themselves plumbers went through the trouble of being an apprentice for 5 years and go to 4 to 5 years of schooling and get their plumbing license, they would be charging similar rates. We as plumbers in Illinois have to go to school every year just so we can renew our license. When we do work, and we get permits we are putting our license on the line so we ensure the job is done proper with the proper materials and the proper insurance and bonds. If we get caught doing a job with out a permit they fine us 5k for the first offense, then it doubles from there and if we are repeat offenders we lose our license.
     
  14. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Occupation:
    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
     
  15. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006

    I don't disagree with any of that. I just think it's a bit callous and insensitive to be boasting about how much you are making when so many are making nothing at all.
     
  16. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Here is where you lose me: "Plumbing of any sort." There's a big difference between repiping a house and replacing a leaky toilet fill valve. And, what are all these "cross-connections" that handymen are making? Are they tying in the waste-water to the fresh water supply somehow? Give me some examples.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  17. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Occupation:
    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Dude, last month I had to borrow money to pay my rent. My fridge is empty, just very basics. I am so glad my daughter is in Job Corps where she has a place to sleep and 3 squares a day. Sadly I had more famine days this year due to my health and work being very slow. So excuse me and any other plumber that feels good that they can make a bit of overtime. It is far and few between when we can charge overtime rates. One thing I do do is I quote the overtime or double time rates to the customer over the phone this way I do not make a trip for nothing.

    Also as I said in many other posts everyone's rats should be differnt each contractor has to charge enough to cover their overhead, and enough to make a living. Last year I only made $23,000 gross.. Not the heaping amounts of cash people think us plumbers make. Sad thing is many years ago when I got into doing plumbing I was more at $30,000 but had to take pay cuts due to home owners comparing my rates to those of a handyman. My father used to get $150 bucks to rod a main sewer over 30 years ago. Today we get $265 if it only takes 1 hour. Not much a increase, but the overhead sure as hell went up.

    Give you an example the company's gross 20+ years ago was $450,000 a year, and the over head was no more than $150,000, our gross last year was $475,000 but our overhead was $430,000 Everything went up but our rates which means our paychecks got smaller.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2008
  18. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area


    You're not responsible for anyones life's circumstances, and working cheaper just affords them something else.


    Businesses are not supposed to be ran by emotions, rather by checks and balances and the fact that if you trump your own hand of cards,


    You'll end up suffering and losing your own shirt off your back and guess what your clientell does for you?


    NOTHING. When you need it most they'll turn a blind eye to your need, thinking you've already made money off them, what more?


    I spent 1.5 today trying and testing a tub for a leak. $115.00 for my time.

    I fixed the problem, but the problem was a simple one; when the customer installed a new trip & waste overflow assembly, he didn't properly align the overflow so the gasket would seal against the tub opening.

    If I went out there for $20, $30, $40...


    First of all, the guy is going to think I'm stupid running around in a $45,000.00 truck being the Plumbing Saint I really am. Second, the NEXT time I go and do a service call for him, if I do something larger, like say a water heater replacement...takes 3 hours,


    should I now charge $60, $80, $100???


    It doesn't work any way but the way it adds up.


    Dammit I just crapped my pants trying to hold it to the end of this thread. :(

    Looks like Depends undergarments are in my near future.
     
  19. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    You missed my point entirely. I don't care what you charged. It's bragging about what you charged... Perhaps Terry needs to have a private forum for you guys to talk about your recent triumphs, monetary windfalls, etc...
     
  20. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    I put one of these in a duplex and it developed a slow and steady leak that cost me hundreds of dollars of the coarse of six months. Sewer utilization is EXPENSIVE. The poppet over the small oriface leaked just enough to let water escape through the hose that fills the bowl after a flush. The only way I was able to isolate the leak was by completely shutting the water valve off to the toilet. Don't waste your time or money on this one. I have installed several of these over the years.. They are quiet so guess thats why I continue to put up with this product.. There is no way hand tightening will work with this product.. Lots of leaks if you just use your hand . Get yourself a big wretch and you have to tighten just to the breaking point to get this watertight.. There is just something wrong that hand tightening leaks profusely.. good luck.

    I bought my house eleven years ago and each bathroom had the Hushflo Ballcock valve. They worked fine until a year ago when I had to replace one of them because it develped a slow leak that let the tank fill over the overflow pipe. I bought a replacement and had to return it because it also allowed the tank to fill over the overflow even after several adjustments. I returned it and got another which so far has seemed to work okay. Now, my other Hushflo has developed a problem with overflowing. I have replaced this one but I cannot get it to not overflow after about 45 minutes to an hour after flushing. I have replaced it with another make completely as I am fed up.

    It is hard to adjust and it leaks right out of the box. I'm not the only one to have trouble with this product. It is also sold as the Delta Pro-fill and fill-pro. I have heard it is so bad it is against the law to us it in some states. Help



    Naw, I prefer this kind:
     

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