Help needed to diagnose a difficult leak from the top!

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Qqzj

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Howdy Terry and all other good folks here! I really need some help this time. This forum has helped me a lot. But my problems are usually small. This time is tough. So I have to register to ask a question.

My WH is a Kenmore gas heater made by AO Smith. 6 years old. As you can see (maybe not. But trust me on this.) there is a small puddle at the base of the cold water nipple. I zip-tied a piece of paper towel on the hose connection. It is absolutely dry. So I know the problem is not due to the hose or its connection.

Then I bought a new piece of nipple from Home Depot. Used thread sealant and installed it. (The old one is corroded.) But the small puddle soon returned.

As far as I can see, water will emerge first inside the groove on the outside of the white plastic ring in the first picture. When it is filled, water will get inside of the hole that the nipple goes into. So it seems that my nipple connection to the tank is fine. (I cannot be 100% certain of this point.) But something else is wrong.

Can someone give me any idea on what is going on? I searched all over internet w/o luck. Need some expert opinion now. Thanks!
 

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Reach4

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Can someone give me any idea on what is going on? I searched all over internet w/o luck. Need some expert opinion now.
I think my non-expert opinion will line up with the experts in this case: failing or failed water heater. You have done your due diligence.

I like your nylon wrap and paper towel test.
 
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Qqzj

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Thanks for the reply! I really hope you are wrong though. But maybe you are not.

Surprisingly, Sears still would cover this WH. I need to pay $99 to have a guy from Sears/Kenmore to take a look. But I was warned that they typically won't warranty leak from top. They told me they only cover leak from tank and most of the leak from tank is leak from bottom.

So if the tech from Sears/Kenmore tells me that they won't cover, I am out of $99 instantly which sucks big time. If they cover, they will provide me with a new WH. But I have to pay the labor. Anyone know how much labor typically is?

I packed thread sealant onto the threads of the nipple. And I did not use tape. Maybe I should put thread sealant into the threads on the tank? Some online sources claim I should use tapes to wrap the threads 6-7 layers and then put thread sealant on top of the tape. Should I redo the nipple installation? Thanks!
 

Terry

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I do three wraps with tape and then pipe dope for a nipple going into the tank.

The stainless corrugated supply line has a rubber washer at the end. I either replace that rubber washer or replace the supply line. The rubber washer makes that seal. No tape needed for the supply line to nipple. For me, if I remove a flex connector for any reason, it gets replaced.
 

Qqzj

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Hi Terry, thanks for the reply. I verified that the hose is fine using my zip-tie and paper towel kung fu skills. Just now, I removed that nipple again. Wrapped it with tape 9 or 10 rounds and applied pipe dope over it. Tightened it like a maniac. Still a small leak.

I don't know what to do and what to say now. Totally crushed. Sears most likely won't honor the warranty because the leak is from top. I probably will have to stick with it and see how long it will last. If one day the tank leaks in six years, maybe I can then ask Sears for warranty.

But I sincerely believe it is a warranty issue. There must be a leak between tank and the place where nipple goes into tank. As you can see water will show up at the higher place around the white plastic ring, then drip into the hole that the nipple goes into. So the nipple does not leak itself. So frustrating!
 

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Hi guys, I finally finished the whole thing! I also wrote a brief writeup to document my experience. I always do so after each DIY to remind myself what happened. Useful in the future. Also it might be useful to others. So I copy and paste it here as well. Please let me know if there is anything I did wrong. Thanks!

My original Kenmore water heater (40 gallon gas tank heater, made by AO Smith. 12 year warranty) broke after 8 years. Sears replaced for free. After only 6 years, the replacement WH leaked from top. Most of the time, leaking from top is due to connection, but mine is not. The tank was leaking on top. So I have to replace it.

Lowes sells AO Smith. Since I had terrible experience with AO Smith, I dare not touch it again. So I went with Rheem from Home Depot. Another big brand is Bradford White. But it is not sold around me. On homedepot.com, choose

Water heater, Rheem, Atmospheric (not direct vent, power vent, or power direct vent), Residentical, 40 gallon and Tall, there are only 10 options left. And almost everyone chooses the cheapest one with 6 years warranty (3000+ reviews vs 200 reviews etc). The cheapest one only cost $400. The more expensive models have (1) low NOx (I don't care) (2) brass drain valve (I can put my old brass drain valve back on) (3) heat water faster (I don't care and am happy to save energy bill) (4) longer warranty. (I heard the difference is the number and size of anode rods in the WH.) However, sadly, the cheapest one is not available near me. I have to drive about 120 miles round trip for it. In principle, WH should be transported vertically. Not flat in the trunk of my SUV. So I decided to just buy the cheapest one from local HD. It is a ultra low nox version. Otherwise, it is the same as the $400 WH. Same size and same energy consumption. Just lower emission to be good for environment. I think it is possible that our local government requires this version so the cheapst one is not sold here. Yeah, $170 from me to contribute to environment. Great.

My local HD contracts a local plumbing company for the installation. It will charge about $600+ for the installation and $173 for city permit. Also it would recommend more expensive WH. So the totall bill from it will be $1750+. So it helps a lot to do it yourself.

The key for an easy installation is

1. Use a WH that is very close in shape to your old WH. So there will be minimum modification needed.
2. The water lines and gas lines are flex hoses instead of soldered brass pipes. That is very important. Makes life a lot easier. I did not have to sweat solder any pipes.


Next are the detailed steps.

1. Use a 1/4 socket to remove the screws from old WH vent hood. Don't try a flat head screwdriver. Hard.

2. Use a big Crescent wrench to remove old cold & hot water lines. I actually need a 15 inch big wrench. A 12 inch wrench is actually not enough. These lines are sealed by a plastic/rubber washer inside. So we do not need to use pipe tape or sealant. Most people will replace the flex lines. But I am cheap. I reused them. Works for now. Shut off water first, of course. Also drain the tank.

3. I also removed the good dielectric nipple in case I need it in the future.

4. I then removed the T&P valve in case I need it in the future. (I removed a brass union and a brass pipe with threads first.)

5. I shut off gas and removed the flex gas line, a union, the deposit trap with a cap. So finally, I can remove the t-pipe that supplies WH with gas. To remove the flex gas line, I need to hold the union with a second wrench. The flex gas line seems to be sealed with a compression ring. No need for pipe tape or sealant.

6. Then I removed my brass drain valve (full port valve) with garden hose adapter and cap, and a nipple into the tank. I installed them to the old WH myself. They can be re-used later.

7. Next I removed the bolts and nuts for earthquake strap. A ratcheting 11/16 wrench made this a lot easier.

8. Next is the most difficult job. I need to remove the old WH from the steel stand and put the new one onto it. I have limited space and the thing is round. Nowhere to put hands on. It bothered me quite a while. Finally, I figured out the trick. I used a floor jack for car repair to do it. I raised the jack tray and slowly moved the WH onto the jack tray. This is quite hard. I manipulated the WH while my wife pushed and pulled the floor jack. It is actually a two-person job here. With some after-thought, it will be a good idea if someone can borrow a dolly that has a hydraulic system to raise/lower the dolly floor. Your knees will thank you. I remember seeing some plumbers use a big belt to attach the WH to their belly and raise WH that way. Man, you need to be quite strong for that.

9. Then I have to put everything back. Quite straight forward. I got a little bit of water leak from cold intake initially. But I tightened the nut a bit and everything is fine. Then I first drilled two holes on the vent hood so that I can put screws in. (I initially tried to use screwdrivers to drive them in, too hard.)

10. Finally, I just need to spray some soapy water onto the gas joints to make sure no bubbles show up. And that is it! If I made any mistakes or missed anything, please let me know. Thanks!
 
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