Forgot to cement an ABS joint... now what?

[Zimm0who0net]

So I finished my rough lines, went to pressure test and noticed a leak. Turns out I forgot to cement the whole damn joint. Here's a photo:

That's a 3" to 2" wye. So I've tried to get it apart and I can't seem to . Probably not surprising given that it didn't blow apart with about 12' of head on it. So now what do I do?

Incidentally, is there a way to pull the test ball out of the test tee at the bottom of a stack without flooding my basement? If not, I'll wear a bathing suit next time...

 

[James Henry]

Screw in type test ball.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[wwhitney]

If you've got 5" or more between the two hubs, you can cut out a 2-1/2" section of ABS that is at least 1-1/4" from each hub. Then use two shielded rubber couplings for 3" ABS to 3" ABS, Fernco 3005-33 or Mission P-300 to put back in a 2-1/8" section of ABS after you solvent cement the joint you missed. The 3/8" difference in pipe lengths (2-1/2" taken out, 2-1/8" put back in) is 1/8" for the rubber stop in each coupling, plus 1/8" wiggle room for sliding the folded back rubber portion of the couplings into place.

Alternatively, you can use 3 couplings around the 3 connections of one of the wyes.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Zimm0who0net]

Thanks Wayne. I think I understand, but I'm not certain why I need 2 shielded coupling rather than just 1 if I use a coupling without a stop? In other words, cut out a section that's the depth of the hub so I can get the end of the pipe out that's in the hub. Put the coupling in without a stop. Cement in the little stub I just pulled out, and then slide the coupling over the gap?

 

[WorthFlorida]

Thanks Wayne. I think I understand, but I'm not certain why I need 2 shielded coupling rather than just 1 if I use a coupling without a stop? In other words, cut out a section that's the depth of the hub so I can get the end of the pipe out that's in the hub. Put the coupling in without a stop. Cement in the little stub I just pulled out, and then slide the coupling over the gap?

You got it! Besure to get the proper coupling as shown in the picture, a full metal band around the neoprene rubber. HD and Lowes you'll usually find one with a small metal band that is not for a drain pipe. The label on the coupling may read ASTM C1460 or ASTM C1461.

 

[wwhitney]

Thanks Wayne. I think I understand, but I'm not certain why I need 2 shielded coupling rather than just 1 if I use a coupling without a stop? In other words, cut out a section that's the depth of the hub so I can get the end of the pipe out that's in the hub. Put the coupling in without a stop. Cement in the little stub I just pulled out, and then slide the coupling over the gap?

Two reasons:

(1) Only the style shown/mentioned is approved for above ground use, and they are all 2-1/8" long with a stop. The longer unshielded style is for underground use only.
(2) Your method would leave you with ~2" (hub depth) where there's no pipe, just rubber. The coupling are for joining pipes, they don't replace a 2" section of pipe.

Between two coaxial fixed ends you always needs two couplings.

After cutting, if you could spread the two pipe ends apart laterally by one pipe diameter (which looks impossible, as you have wyes on both sides of the segment with the joint to redo), or if you could spread the ends apart longitudinally by one hub depth (also not likely), then you could do the job with just one rubber coupling. Make the cut, spread the ends to extract the loose piece, put on the rubber coupling folded back, glue in the loose piece, and then restore the geometry.

If you could spread the cut ends by 2 hub depths longitudinally, or 1 hub depth longitudinally and 1 pipe diameter transversely, then you could use a glue joint coupling with stop. Repair glue joint couplings (no stop) are very hard to get right and it's generally better to use a rubber coupling.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Zimm0who0net]

Ahh, OK. So I guess the 1056-33 with an SRC-15 shear ring is not the proper fitting! I see how you would end up with a hub width gap between the pipe ends. Now I see the need for two couplings.

If I had the flexibility you talk about I could probably get the end of the pipe out, put cement on it, and work it back into the hub of the wye and avoid this all together.

I didn't know there even was a "no stop" fitting. I've always wondered why there wasn't something like a copper fitting without a stop that makes these sorts of repairs simple. I can see how they would be problematic as getting the cement in the right place would be really freaking hard.

Is there any room for a 1059-33 socket-to-pipe fitting? Seems I could cut the pipe off flush with the Wye and finagle in the fernco. I guess it wouldn't be shielded though so I'd probably end up with alignment issues.

 

[Reach4]

I didn't know there even was a "no stop" fitting. I've always wondered why there wasn't something like a copper fitting without a stop that makes these sorts of repairs simple.

They even sell them several inches long, and you can cut to the length you want.

Sioux Chief 600-306PK is 3/4" x 6" and 600-212PK is 1/2" x 12".

 

[wwhitney]

If I had the flexibility you talk about I could probably get the end of the pipe out, put cement on it, and work it back into the hub of the wye and avoid this all together.

Yes, my comments about longitudinal flexibility are obviously immaterial, I was forgetting the original problem. But transverse flexibility would still allow you to use only 1 rubber coupling instead of 2.

Is there any room for a 1059-33 socket-to-pipe fitting?

Again, the only allowed fitting is a shielded fitting listed to ASTM C1460 or C1461.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Plumber69]

If you cut the 2 inch is there play to slide the un glued joint off? If so you only need a 2 inch banded coupling

 

[Michael Young]

So I finished my rough lines, went to pressure test and noticed a leak. Turns out I forgot to cement the whole damn joint. Here's a photo:

This is RAW SEWAGE you're dealing with.
#1 CUT THE PIPE at about the mid-way point.
#2 Wiggle loose the piece of unglued pipe
#3 GLUE THE PIPE PROPERLY
#3 GLUE THE PIPE PROPERLY
#3 GLUE THE PIPE PROPERLY
#4 use a slip-style repair coupling (slide it around the pipe before you glue in the small cutout)
#5 once ou have the piece of pipe properly glued. glue both side of the pipe and use a hammer
to gently tap the repair coupling dead-center of your cut. easy-peasy

 

[Zimm0who0net]

Well, just to be thorough I figured I'd post the final result. Did I do it right?

I brought out the torque wrench for the bands and tried to do 60 in-lbs, but it felt like I was on the verge of stripping out the worm gear and I hadn't gotten the "click", so I stopped. I'm thinking the torque wrench might not be very accurate in that range. It was well tighter than I could make them with my nut driver.

 

[wwhitney]

Looks good to me. Since you're going to pressure test, that should be sufficient confirmation that it's tight enough.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Michael Young]

Well, just to be thorough I figured I'd post the final result. Did I do it right?

I brought out the torque wrench for the bands and tried to do 60 in-lbs, but it felt like I was on the verge of stripping out the worm gear and I hadn't gotten the "click", so I stopped. I'm thinking the torque wrench might not be very accurate in that range. It was well tighter than I could make them with my nut driver.

It'll work. I don't know that it would pass inspection. In my area, if you are going PVC-to-PVC, they want to see glue joints. But what you have will work. you're not getting it inspected. So leave well enough alone. You used a no-hub band instead of Fernco, so works for me

 

[Terry]

Not no-hub, but shielded couplings sized for plastic pipe.
We use them here when needed. Looks good.

 

[Michael Young]

Not no-hub, but shielded couplings sized for plastic pipe.
We use them here when needed. Looks good.

so you can use a shielded coupling to join PVC-to-PVC or ABS-to-ABS or ABS-to PVC. The inspectors will rah rah if they see that in my area

 

[wwhitney]

You're right that IPC 705.2.1 on Mechanical Joints for ABS says "Mechanical joints shall be installed only in underground systems unless otherwise approved." So it is at the discretion of the AHJ on whether to approve them.

https://up.codes/viewer/north_carolina/ipc-2015/chapter/7/sanitary-drainage#705.2

If an AHJ didn't approve the above picture, the obviously solution would be to change the short section of ABS to PVC pipe. Then mechanical joints are called for as per 705.16. Which is a sufficiently stupid solution that hopefully any reasonable AHJ would see that the use of mechanical joints should be approved above ground, even when there are not different pipe materials involved.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Terry]

Here it's PVC to ABS. The inspectors here prefer this over transition glue.
We often will transition using these couplings.

 

[Zimm0who0net]

Well, I guess I'll cross my fingers and call for my inspection...