Floor leveling concrete vs self leveling concrete ?!

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Mini Me, Aug 3, 2021.

  1. Mini Me

    Mini Me Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Location:
    Toronto
    The manufacturer instructions say "mounds of floor leveling compound". Is this the self leveling cement or it is a different cement ? Can't find anything like "floor leveling compound at www.homedepot.ca

    Using self leveling cement makes no sense, that one won't stay, it goes flat and I already leveled the floor there for the entire room. The base is very sturdy (emailed steel as per Kohler -model is Ballast 60x32). It does bend like 1mm in the middle and that is why I would still put the cement there


    [​IMG]
     
  2. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    I was just looking at that same installation diagram. I forget which manufacture(looks like Kohler instructions).. But what they want you to use is a Type S or M mortar with no rock substrate like a concrete mix would have. Just sand mix.

    The Leveling that they are referring to is that when you set your tub in the substrate/mortar mix and its level, once the mortar cures, it will be held level by the mortar.

    I always set my tub or shower in first and get it level all around, then I scribe a pencil line across all the studs, then when I set it in mortar, I just have to match up my pre leveled lines.. but always double check with a level.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  4. Mini Me

    Mini Me Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
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    Toronto
    I get the point of not having rocks there in order to make some fine tuned cradle for the base but I do not get the Type S and M mortar reference as these seem to be exterior mortars (as per google).
    In my case I would need a very fine layer of mortar there as the floor was leveled with auto leveling cement and there is very little room for movement and I think that is because the base is not perfectly flat on the back side where it has the reinforcements

    BTW what is the point for the plastic sheet ? I find that to be an impediment there for the base to make correct contact with the cement. Or is that what you actually want so you can remove the base later if you need to?
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Mortar does not need air to harden. If it stays moist longer, it will be stronger. The easier removal would be possibly a plus.

    Search this forum for [​IMG] mortar using the search box, above.

    Incidentally, exterior grade plywood can be used indoors also. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    The reason for the piles versus trying to make a flat level surface, is twofold:
    - the bottom of the pan or tub may not be flat and level itself
    - with the piles, you have a chance of smushing them down to get things level. Note, especially if the bottom has something like a grid, it also gives you much more surface contact. Some people will put a second layer of plastic on top of the leveling material, not that it tends to stick, it can act like a slippery layer and might forestall any squeaks or crunching and makes eventual removal easier. The layer on the floor helps prevent moisture from being sucked out of the mortar before it gets a chance to cure. Water becomes chemically combined with the cement that causes it to then cure to a more stable state...the extra makes it easier to form and flow where you need it and will eventually dry out, but isn't critical for it to cure. That's one reason why they sometimes cover a new slab...to help hold the moisture in to allow the cement what it needs to fully hydrate. The depth needs to be deep enough to hold itself together unless it is being used on a slab.

    Exterior grade plywood uses glues that aren't damaged by being wetted...some glues used not rated for exterior, can allow the plies to easily delaminate if they get wet enough long enough. It is required when tiling by most thinset mortar manufacturers and industry standards.
     
  7. Mini Me

    Mini Me Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2020
    Location:
    Toronto
    Sorry guys you lost me here...as far as I can see mounds or piles in this context would mean almost the same thing
     
  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    What is not at all the same is what a search of this forum using those words would bring up.

    Similarly, inquire, research, check out, seek history, explore, investigate, and more could have been used to suggest you use a tool to read up on past posts discussing this, but only Search appears in the search box, above.

    I suggest including mortar in your search too.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
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