Fleck 5600SXT hard water

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Duaned

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A couple years ago I rebuilt my old Rainsoft unit. I kept the original tanks, replaced the head with a Fleck 5600SXT, put new high capacity media in and replaced the brine tank valve and interconnecting hoses.

It's been working great, until it wasn't. I now get no soft water.

The head appears to be cycling ok, the brine is drawn out of the tank and later new water is added.

I just pulled the injector. No plugs in it or any of the hoses. The injector screen still looks like new.

We did have a period of time where our water district was having issues and the chlorine level in the water was pretty high. Maybe I need to replace the media again? The Rainsoft unit ran 20+ years on the original media.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
Duane
 

Reach4

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Check that there is brine in the brine tank, and that the brine is being drawn out in about the first 15 minutes of the BD cycle.
 

Duaned

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Check that there is brine in the brine tank, and that the brine is being drawn out in about the first 15 minutes of the BD cycle.

There is brine in the tank, it's drawn out and then refilled.

Just stepped it through a cycle and both valves are operating.
 

Duaned

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The main valve and the injector valve. AFAIK the only other valve is in the brine tank to prevent overflow.

So the controller is engaging the motor and it is advancing the cams which open and close the two valves.
 

Reach4

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There is the brine valve, which I think you are calling the injector valve. There is an air check valve. There is a bypass valve. If the bypass is plastic, there are two independent valves for bypass.


So anyway, the brine gets sucked out in about 15 minutes, and the brine tank gets refilled. So those eliminate a lot of possible things.

Is your tank natural tan, or is it painted? If not painted, you can shine a bright light through in the dark, and see how much resin there is.
 

Bannerman

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We did have a period of time where our water district was having issues and the chlorine level in the water was pretty high. Maybe I need to replace the media again?
Chlorine damage is cumulative over time but if the chlorine level is excessive, then damage can occur more rapidly. You didn't specify what 'pretty high' chlorine level means in quantity.

Resin that has been damaged by chlorine will often (not always) result in an excessive flow reduction through the softener. Have you recognized the flow rate through the softener is less than usual ?

While chlorine will damage any softener resin, resin with 10% crosslinking will better tolerate standard 8% crosslink resin. There is much resin sold that is less than 8% crosslink.

To replace the resin, suggest using 10% CL resin or, install a carbon backwashing filter to remove the chlorine before it enters the softener.
 

Duaned

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I didn't consider the bypass valve as being part of the softening process and didn't think of the check valve. I was referring to the two valves that are directly controlled by the computer.

It doesn't look like the tank is painted. I'll try that tonight.

When I replaced the media (which was actually 3 years ago, not 2) I put in 0.87 cf of 10% media. No sand. In a 9x42 tank.
 

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Chlorine damage is cumulative over time but if the chlorine level is excessive, then damage can occur more rapidly. You didn't specify what 'pretty high' chlorine level means in quantity.

Resin that has been damaged by chlorine will often (not always) result in an excessive flow reduction through the softener. Have you recognized the flow rate through the softener is less than usual ?

While chlorine will damage any softener resin, resin with 10% crosslinking will better tolerate standard 8% crosslink resin. There is much resin sold that is less than 8% crosslink.

To replace the resin, suggest using 10% CL resin or, install a carbon backwashing filter to remove the chlorine before it enters the softener.

I have no idea how much chlorine was in the water and it wasn't consistent. There would often be a strong chlorine smell noticed when taking a shower. We're on a small (~500 customer) water system located in a canyon in the mountains. Source is from wells and is pumped into six 200,000 gallon storage tanks on the top of the hills. For a while the chlorine injection system wasn't working so an employee had to climb the tank once a day and dump in a bunch of chlorine.

Water is 100% gravity fed, there are no pumps (other than on the wells and for transferring from tank to tank) so pressure often varies considerably. I have not noticed a reduction overall but if it happened over time I probably wouldn't. Switching to a tank-less water heater and replacing all the pipes with PEX also changed the pressure/flow.

When I rebuilt the system I replaced the resin with 10%.

I ordered a 20" whole house carbon filter earlier today. Debating if I should go ahead and order more resin.

Thanks,
Duane
 

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I put in 0.87 cf of 10% media. No sand. In a 9x42 tank.
What is your raw water hardness?
Water consumption gallons or alternately, the number of residents so as to estimate usage?
What settings were programmed into the 5600SXT?
 

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Water is 100% gravity fed, there are no pumps (other than on the wells and for transferring from tank to tank) so pressure often varies considerably.
How many PSI into the softener during backwash? You may not be adequately backwashing.
 

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What is your raw water hardness?
Water consumption gallons or alternately, the number of residents so as to estimate usage?
What settings were programmed into the 5600SXT?

Hardness was 9 when the Rainsoft system was installed. I just copied that to the Fleck.

We average a bit under 4 units (1 unit = 100cf or 748 gallons) per month. So about 3,000 gallons per month.

Current settings are:

DF- GAL
VT- dF1b
CT- Fd
NT- 1
C- 48
H- 9
RS- rc
RC- 300
DO- 14
RT- 2:00
BW- 10
BD- 60
RR- 10
BF- 14
FM- P0.7
 

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Ran another cycle. BW was normal but when it went to BD it was putting water into the tank, not drawing it out.

From my limited knowledge it's looking like an internal leak. Maybe time for a new piston, seals and spacers?
 

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Check that there is brine in the brine tank, and that the brine is being drawn out in about the first 15 minutes of the BD cycle.
Could be an air leak. A small leak might pass an insignificant amount of water, but might admit a significant amount of air. Sucking on the brine line can detect some leaks.

BLFC could have a clog.

There are other possibilities.
 

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Could be an air leak. A small leak might pass an insignificant amount of water, but might admit a significant amount of air. Sucking on the brine line can detect some leaks.

BLFC could have a clog.

There are other possibilities.

After watching a video on replacing the piston/spacers/seals I suspect I didn't get the o-ring that goes below the brine valve back in. I came across an o-ring that I thought went somewhere else. That would probably explain why it's filling the brine tank when it should be drawing from it.

Time to head out and confirm.

Though that doesn't fix the original problem of no soft water.

Nope. o-ring is in the correct place.
 
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Bannerman

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The total grains capacity for 0.87 ft3 of resin is (.87 X 32,000/ft3 =) 27,840 grains. Your current C-48K grain setting will result in regeneration occurring long after the resin's capacity has been depleted.

The resin's total capacity will not be programmed as 'C'. The usual 'C' setting recommendation for 0.87 ft3 is 20,880 grains which will require only 6.96 lbs salt to regenerate.

If your 5600SXT is equipped with the most common 0.5 gpm BLFC (brine line flow control = brine tank fill rate), your current BF-14 setting should be causing 7-gallons water to enter the brine tank. Each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs salt so your current BF setting is likely resulting in as much as 21 lbs salt to be consumed each regeneration cycle.

Because there are other flow restrictors also available (0.125, 0.25 & 1.0 gpm), the BLFC flow rate should be verified before calculating the appropriate BF setting. There is typically a label located nearby to the brine tube connection which will specify the BLFC flow restrictor originally installed.
 

Reach4

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To recap where I think the symptoms are, you are getting little to no softening, even after regen.
It appears that brine is not being drawn during the BD cycle.
You have cleaned the both parts of the injector (nozzle and throat) and found no blockage or deposits.

Is that accurate?

Though that doesn't fix the original problem of no soft water.
If no brine is being drawn, and you have eliminated a vacuum leak, see #13 of https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-technician-is-scratching-is-head-help.73584/

There have been some cases where the brine valve was not working right due to worn cam or brine valve having the wrong length actuator that meets the cam.
 

Duaned

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To recap where I think the symptoms are, you are getting little to no softening, even after regen.
It appears that brine is not being drawn during the BD cycle.
You have cleaned the both parts of the injector (nozzle and throat) and found no blockage or deposits.

Is that accurate?


If no brine is being drawn, and you have eliminated a vacuum leak, see #13 of https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-technician-is-scratching-is-head-help.73584/

There have been some cases where the brine valve was not working right due to worn cam or brine valve having the wrong length actuator that meets the cam.

It was drawing brine a couple day ago. When I cycled it yesterday it wasn't. The only reason I can think of is that I didn't get the seals/spacers seated correctly after I took it apart. I've ordered new seals, spacers, piston and brine valve for it which should arrive by Tuesday.

I did not find any blockage or deposits and no soft water even after multiple regens.
 

Duaned

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The total grains capacity for 0.87 ft3 of resin is (.87 X 32,000/ft3 =) 27,840 grains. Your current C-48K grain setting will result in regeneration occurring long after the resin's capacity has been depleted.

The resin's total capacity will not be programmed as 'C'. The usual 'C' setting recommendation for 0.87 ft3 is 20,880 grains which will require only 6.96 lbs salt to regenerate.

If your 5600SXT is equipped with the most common 0.5 gpm BLFC (brine line flow control = brine tank fill rate), your current BF-14 setting should be causing 7-gallons water to enter the brine tank. Each gallon will dissolve 3 lbs salt so your current BF setting is likely resulting in as much as 21 lbs salt to be consumed each regeneration cycle.

Because there are other flow restrictors also available (0.125, 0.25 & 1.0 gpm), the BLFC flow rate should be verified before calculating the appropriate BF setting. There is typically a label located nearby to the brine tube connection which will specify the BLFC flow restrictor originally installed.

Wow, I knew my settings weren't optimal but I didn't think they were that far off.

It does have the 0.5 gpm BLFC.
 
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