Faulty CSV?

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stallhorn

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Hello,

I recently installed a CSV per the instructions along with a 4.5 gal pressure tank as per the recommendation. The CSV is set to 70 PSI at the factory, but it acts as if it is not even there. Cut in/out for the pump is set to 53/73.

- the pump fills the tank in about 15 seconds. From what I understand, it should take about a minute to replenish that ~1 gallon-ish capacity of the 4.5 gallon tank.
- the pump fills and drains the well pressure tank over and over. If I open more faucets in the house to drain about 5 gallons per minute, then the pressure hovers around 60 PSI. I never saw the pressure steady at around 70 regardless of what I did.

I really wanted it to work as advertised to solve pressure problems in the house.

I don't know the make/horsepower of the pump in the well, but it gave me around 7 gallons a minute with a bucket test.



csv.jpeg



csv1.jpg
csv2.jpg
 

Bannerman

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Perhaps your pressure switch, is not actually calibrated accurately for 53/73 psi. If the pressure switch is shutting off the pump before pressure builds to 70 psi, then the CSV will not restrict flow from the pump whatsoever.

Maybe your pressure gauge is not reporting pressure accurately and so is showing 73 psi even as the pressure is actually lower.


- the pump fills the tank in about 15 seconds. From what I understand, it should take about a minute to replenish that ~1 gallon-ish capacity of the 4.5 gallon tank.
With that size pressure tank, with a 53/73 pressure range, the CSV will be typically calibrated to deliver 63 psi (the middle of the pressure switch pressure range). When a significantly larger pressure tank is utilized, then the CSV will be often calibrated at a higher pressure.

With the pressure switch calibrated accurately for the pressure range you stated and the CSV calibrated to 63 psi, it should take approx 30-seconds to continue to fill the pressure tank before the pump is shut down. Approx 50% of the tank will become filled while the pump is building pressure up to 63 psi, and the remaining 50% capacity will be filled once no water is being further consumed in the home, thereby causing the CSV to continue to flow 1 GPM to fill the pressure tank until the pressure rises to 73 whereby the pressure switch will shut down the pump.

Have you tested the air pre-charge in the pressure tank to ensure the pre-charge is actually ~51 psi while the tank is completely drained of water?

If I open more faucets in the house to drain about 5 gallons per minute, then the pressure hovers around 60 PSI. I never saw the pressure steady at around 70 regardless of what I did.
Perhaps your pump is not capable of 70 psi when the flow rate exceeds a modest rate such as 4 gpm.
 
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Reach4

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Cut in/out for the pump is set to 53/73.
With the pressure switch set to 53/73, you might set the CSV to 63 psi.

Perhaps your pump is not capable of 70 psi when the flow rate exceeds a modest rate such as 4 gpm.
That plus pushing the water thru the PEX.... is that 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch PEX? This is presuming that the PEX brings water from the pump.

It is not usual to have a valve between the CSV and the pump.

Stallhorn, if, on the other hand, it is the PVC that brings water from the well, you appear to have the CSV in backwards.
 
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stallhorn

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Perhaps your pressure switch, is not actually calibrated accurately for 53/73 psi. If the pressure switch is shutting off the pump before pressure builds to 70 psi, then the CSV will not restrict flow from the pump whatsoever.

Maybe your pressure gauge is not reporting pressure accurately and so is showing 73 psi even as the pressure is actually lower.

The guage is pretty new and I have a second gauge downstream. They agree within a PSI or two. I will increase the cutoff pressure to 75 - 78 and see how that works.
With that size pressure tank, with a 53/73 pressure range, the CSV will be typically calibrated to deliver 63 psi (the middle of the pressure switch pressure range). When a significantly larger pressure tank is utilized, then the CSV will be often calibrated at a higher pressure.

I wanted the CSV to run at 70 psi, and I understood it will run at 70 even if the cutoff is at 71.
With the pressure switch calibrated accurately for the pressure range you stated and the CSV calibrated to 63 psi, it should take approx 30-seconds to continue to fill the pressure tank before the pump is shut down. Approx 50% of the tank will become filled while the pump is building pressure up to 63 psi, and the remaining 50% capacity will be filled once no water is being further consumed in the home, thereby causing the CSV to continue to flow 1 GPM to fill the pressure tank until the pressure rises to 73 whereby the pressure switch will shut down the pump.

Have you tested the air pre-charge in the pressure tank to ensure the pre-charge is actually ~51 psi while the tank is completely drained of water?

Yes, pressure in the tank is 50 PSI. But I will doublecheck.
Perhaps your pump is not capable of 70 psi when the flow rate exceeds a modest rate such as 4 gpm.
I am happy if I can get 4 GPM at 70 PSI. I have never seen the CSV run at 70. The small tank fills and drains multiple times and the pump starts and stops multiple times when there is demand for water in the house.

I am not happy with the pump starting and stopping after 15-20 seconds everytime there is water use. But it might be the cutoff switch as you suggested. I will adjust that and see if it helps. I will also see if I can back off the CSV to run it at a bit less than 70 PSI.

Thanks.
 

stallhorn

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With the pressure switch set to 53/73, you might set the CSV to 63 psi.
So is the recommendation to set the switch to 60/80 to get 70 psi water?
That plus pushing the water thru the PEX.... is that 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch PEX? This is presuming that the PEX brings water from the pump.

It is not usual to have a valve between the CSV and the pump.

Stallhorn, if, on the other hand, it is the PVC that brings water from the well, you appear to have the CSV in backwards.
it is 1 inch PEX and it just goes a short distance. It doesn't bring water from the pump. I am not sure what brings water from the pump, but it is a 1 inch pipe. The valve was sitting there, so it went in - no particular reason... :) PVC takes the water into the house.
 

Reach4

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Is water coming into the CSV from above or below in your photo?

CSV1A_large.jpg


Note the arrow direction in the CSV casting.
 

Reach4

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From below.
OK. So the water is coming in thru the PEX from below, and there is a valve in line with that which should not be there. There appears to be a big stack of adapters going into the CSV. That's not something else, such as a check valve, under the CSV, is it?

To get 70 PSI water most of the time, presuming the pump can deliver plenty of pressure, turn the pressure switch up to 60/80 psi. In that case, raise the air precharge on the tank to 58 psi or a little less.

If the pump cannot produce that much water, and you want to keep the pressure switch at 53/73, you should set the CSV to 63 psi. still think you should turn the CSV setting down to about 63 PSI. Make the air precharge about 51 psi. Air precharge is measured and set with the water pressure zero.
 

Bannerman

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wanted the CSV to run at 70 psi, and I understood it will run at 70 even if the cutoff is at 71
The pump would then likely only run for a few seconds after water useage has stopped for the pressure to increase from 70 to 71 psi.

The 4.5 gallon pressure tank has an approx 1 gallon drawdown. By setting the CSV pressure at the midpoint of the PS range, the pump will then refill ~50% of the drawdown volume. With the CSV allowing 1 gpm to continue to pass after water usage has stopped, will thereby result in the pump running for an approx 30 seconds after water usage has stopped, to fill the remaining 0.5 gallon tank drawdown capacity.
 

Valveman

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Thanks guys, and sorry for your trouble Stallhorn. The factory would not have set the CSV for 70, using a 53/73 switch and the small tank. We would have set the CSV at 63 PSI as stated. The setting of the CSV1A should be while using about 3 GPM, same as a shower. With less than 3 GPM running it will hold 2-3 PSI higher, which would cause the pump to cycle off. If you want 70 in the shower, set the CSV to 70, the switch to 60/80, and put 55 PSI air in the tank. If the pump cannot build to 80 or make 3 GPM at 70 there is nothing the CSV can do about it. If you need help. call us, we will talk you through it.
 

stallhorn

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Thanks guys, and sorry for your trouble Stallhorn. The factory would not have set the CSV for 70, using a 53/73 switch and the small tank. We would have set the CSV at 63 PSI as stated. The setting of the CSV1A should be while using about 3 GPM, same as a shower. With less than 3 GPM running it will hold 2-3 PSI higher, which would cause the pump to cycle off. If you want 70 in the shower, set the CSV to 70, the switch to 60/80, and put 55 PSI air in the tank. If the pump cannot build to 80 or make 3 GPM at 70 there is nothing the CSV can do about it. If you need help. call us, we will talk you through it.
Ok will set the switch to 60/80 and give it a shot. Unfortunately I tend to fiddle with these things on weekends, not sure if you have support on those days. I will give it a shot this weekend and if all else fails, put in a call on Monday.

Thanks.
 

stallhorn

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Ok will set the switch to 60/80 and give it a shot. Unfortunately I tend to fiddle with these things on weekends, not sure if you have support on those days. I will give it a shot this weekend and if all else fails, put in a call on Monday.

Thanks.
Hi all,

Increased the cuton/cutoff pressure to 60/80 and increased the pressure tank pressure to 55 PSI. I am seeing a consistent 70 PSI water when I have a couple of faucets open. I am very happy with that, but I will keep monitoring as water usage starts increasing.

Appreciate all the help!
 

Fitter30

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Need to dead head the pump to see what pressure gets to. Valve the systen off before or after ex tank. Bypass the pressure switch so the pressure switch is out of the circuit. Turn breaker on gauge should get to the highest pressure in less than a minute note pressure power off. Wire switch back and valve. Pressure switch and CSV has to be set lower. Faucets set at 2.2 gpm or lower is at 60 psi.
 
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