Ethics Question

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Cass, Jun 29, 2007.

  1. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
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    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    who pays the bills??


    will this employee who does this side job give his boss some sort of
    kick-back for the money he has spent for his advertiseing ???

    nooooo waaaayyy is that gong to happen....



    I willing to bet that this fellow used his
    bosses supplies and materials too......for that
    supllimental income.

    if you can remember one thing.....
    you make a dishonest deal and you both eventually suffer the consequences..

    whatever the consequences may be is unknown......

    thats a rule to live by.....



    yes he got the job done cheap,
    behind someones back

    and maybe those two fellows will be best buddies for life...

    but usually it dont work that way.....


    you cant buy true freinds

    and you certainly cant make freinds by doing work cheap.......

    and you certainly cant barter for future benefits either........



    and you dont make a deal with the Devil...

    because he never keeps up his end of the deal...


    what comes around ---goes around
    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
  2. kordts

    kordts In the Trades

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    I am just saying it's illegal in Illinois. So, if the deal went down here, it's illegal. The unions and the contractors both pushed for it. It's actually a felony.
     
  3. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    WOW, Terry! Your beer is expensive there! :eek:
    Is that imported German kind?
     
  4. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    We all are customers

    Here I got a question.
    What are we all not a customer at some point?

    When we go buy a new car do we say to the salesman, " I am not concerned about price, I just want that one--over there, don't even tell me the price, I will just sign on the dotted line."

    Whatever he tells you, we believe and we trust to be right, no questions asked. We don't even want to know how much per month that car payment will be for 3, 4 , or 5 years.

    Now, we go and buy a house. We tell the sales agent again, " price is not a consideration". I want a 4 bedroom, 2 bath, brick 2 story. Again we trust the sales agent when he or she tells you there is nothing wrong with the house, we don't even bother to hire a home inspector because of the reputation of the agent. It is that good. We don't even ask how much the interest rate is or how much the mortage payment will be, why should we? The sales agent is that good. After all he pays about 300 a month for his name to be in that little book, another 2000 a year for advertising and 500 for keeping his license hanging on that wall. He is good.

    We buy that house. We need a gas grill. We need furniture. Not once did we go into that store and look at price tags.

    We need some dead animal to throw on that grill. We don't even feel the sticker shock at the meat deli. We buy big fat steaks to go all around the house welcoming party.

    We all are customers at some point in our lives, on even a daily basis, minute by minute basis.

    Our kids will grow up. They will want to be something in life. We don't even ask the price of 4 years at Yale, Harvard or a business or tech school. We just sign on the dotted line.

    If we were to ask the price of the car, the house, the grill, the dead cow, the chair we are sitting on, what it will cost to educated our children we might actually offend those people. So, we just open our wallets and say, " here."

    We all are customers in like no matter what our professions.

    A man's time is his worth.

    Now back to my vodka with Rugged. :D
     
  5. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    Cass already clarified that point...the guy was expected to use his own tools, his gas, his vehicle.
    Materials, (assuming the has to track materials per re-imbursement)
    We don't know if he already had his own pipe/fittings on his truck...

    RUGGED had a good question...where's the answer?
    oooohhhhh Caaassssss!
     
  6. Verdeboy

    Verdeboy In the Trades

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    Jun 12, 2006
    I don't see how there can be one right answer to this. Cass can say whether or not the guy was fired, but that does not mean it was the right thing to do.

    We can debate that 'til the cows come home.
     
  7. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    I know, and for what it's worth, it's been very enlightening to hear the wide variety of perspectives.
    I've found myself rethinking some ideals and reinforcing others.
     
  8. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

    Joined:
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    Sensitivity trainer.. and plumber of mens souls
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    Its a very grey area...as to what is considerd theft........



    Its all ok...... and everyone sees things from differnet angles.......

    but I can almost guarantee you that this fellow had to use
    materials that are on that truck...

    one way or another....

    its all what you justify for yourself in your own mind.......

    when I worked for a commerical out fit in Denver Colorado...buckets of materials were laying everywhere from one condo to another....

    job trailers were left open....

    and I am pretty sure its how some fellows justified working for the .......SOB .......walking off with a bucket of fittings every so often.....to do their side jobs....

    ...

     
  9. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    The materials in this case are in HIS truck (we prolly need the info from Cass)
    I worked for a shop that used to get cleaned out, literally from all the side work..owner finally put GPS locators on his trucks and bagged a few.
    I suggested he keep the actual store closed and have his first year apprentice set-up stock from lists called in.
    He went with that idea.
     
  10. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    What is ethics.

    I have a part 2 to my question about all of us being customers.

    If a saleperson shows a house or many houses to the same potential buyer but, that buyer then decides to go with someone else who just showed him one---but, one of the same houses, is it ethical for him to buy it? Or should he go back to the other agent who spent alot of his time with him earlier.

    The same with a car.

    Ethics is a state of being. It is something which cannot be determined by rules governed by the state or a court. It would take away man's worth.
     
  11. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    I have noticed that most professions have a " code of ethics." In journalism it is really very long. I found something which in many ways sizes it up. I am quoting this and leaving out the name.

    The discussion of any *** Code of Ethics is like a discussion on politics or religion: there are more than two sides, all sides are strongly opinionated, and seldom do they choose the same path to the same end.

    It doesn't mean it can't be discussed. Although, just agree with me, lol.:D

    That that plumber had his God given right to do plumbing on the side if he wanted and since, his company did not fit the bill, he also, had a God given right to do the work instead. He didn't take anything or wouldn't be taking anything from anyone under those circumstances.

    Infact, he is probably keeping the customer for his company by the customer not going somewhere else to the competitor. It is a 2 way street.

    No profession, no business, no company should be able to morally or legally dictate what a man does to earn a buck after he checks out at that place of employment. It is his time.

    And I also think all employees should get 5 weeks paid vacation, :D
     
  12. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    I worked for a German machinist/engineer years ago...they have that many weeks in Germany, they work hard and play hard.
    Most countries have more vacation time than we do.
    The Germans, in particular are extremely good machinist and engineers, the best in the world in my opinion...maybe they know something we don't.
     
  13. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

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    Yes, but do you remember being told we are headed toward a 20-hour work week?

    Technology sure is great, eh?!
     
  14. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    They're coming out with a new automated robotic plumber soon.....

    No, they're not.
     
  15. billsnogo

    billsnogo wannabe plumber

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    So what happened? I NEED closure! :eek: :p
     
  16. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    NO KIDDIN'!!
    Caasss??
     
  17. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

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    Patience, fellas. There is a bar near Key West that has a very large sign on the side of the building:

    FREE BEER TOMORROW
     
  18. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    I just think Cass is messin' with us....ggggrrrr
     
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