DIY Pump/ Tank project today

[Timagination]

I am going to try to get a young, strong back down here today and if I get one, we'll be replacing my deep well (181') submersible pump and changing out the pressure tank and all related components except the well pipe (1" black plastic) and the similar pipe from the pitless to the house.

I have considerable experience in many aspects of residential plumbing, I worked for a plumber/ welder/ mechanical contractor for two years many years ago here in the area where we now live in North East, MD. I helped pull, repair and replace probably a half dozen or so deep well assemblies back then and I have done all of my own residential plumbing, including gas-fitting, ever since.

The house where I live now is the first I've owned that has not been on a municipal water supply and it is 23 years old, and as far as I can tell, the pump is the only one that has ever been in this well. We bought the house from an older couple who did not have much company, and in the three years that we've been here, we have experienced low water pressure and extremely long recovery times, particularly on the weekends when we commonly have lots of guests. I checked with the county for the records, and our well was installed in 1986 and had the following stats:

181' deep
4" casing
70' to top of water before pumping
100' after pumping
15 GPM

I don't have any hard and fast information concerning the pump itself but when I recently, on the advice of our home inspection report, replaced the aged cast iron non-hermetic well cap with a modern, tight one, I observed that the cap did not appear to have been removed any time within the last ten years or so and also, there are only two wires going down to the pump. There is also a piece of thin wire rope ending in a loop near the cap.......might it go all the way down to the pump?

The plumber for whom I worked those many years ago has graciously obtained for me all of the necessary replacement parts including a 3/4 hp Goulds submersible pump, (1/60/230 2W 13STG 4" SUB), S/S barbs to go from the pump, to the single check valve directly above, all new S/S clamps, Well-Trol 203 pressure tank, Tee, pressure relief valve, pressure switch and gauge. I've cleared the saplings from the vicinity of the well-head and have a T-bar to grab the whole thing with.

I've spent some time perusing the threads here on this great site but I still have one or two concerns. First is the question of the wiring on my new pump. It is listed as a 2 wire, but there is a third, ground wire present on the motor. I don't recall the configuration of the pumps I helped change those many years ago, but I can't imagine that it would be necessary to run a ground wire back to my circuit breaker box from what has to be one of the best natural grounds possible. Do I have to use that third, green conductor? and if I don't, how do I treat it? I have a three wire splice kit ready, I assume I could seal it with that.

My other question has to do with disinfecting the assembly during and after re-installation. I seem to recall spraying the assembly with a mild bleach solution from a small spray bottle during re-insertion but I don't remember ever dumping bleach in any volume down the well and I certainly would rather not but what is appropriate?

I'm prepared to run-off the well for as long as necessary and I know that most or all of that should be prior to the pressure tank.

Any responses appreciated, and I apologize if I haven't been diligent enough in answering these questions myself through search. Thanks for your time.

 

[Speedbump]

I have never used the bleach in the spray bottle approach before, but I suppose it would work. If you want to pour bleach down the well, that's fine too as long as you chase it with a few 5 gallon buckets of fresh water to wash all the bleach off the pipes, wire etc.

Use the third wire and ground it all the way back to the panel if you can. It can save your motor during a lightning storm.

I would graciously take back the 203 x trol and buy practically any other model. The 203 wasn't one of their best tanks. If you can find a Flexcon, all the better.

I hope the wire rope doesn't go to the pump, but if it does, don't drop it and don't put it back.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Timagination]

Thanks for the advice. I cannot easily understand though, how running a ground wire back OUT of the single most deeply grounded space on my property can protect the motor against an unlikely lightning strike. Not being smart here, just crave explanation. When I checked the wiring today I confirmed that there are only two conductors going down to the motor. I should be able to add another (ground) conductor easily enough, there is a ground wire coming out to the pit.

The wire rope is a very thin diameter and goes down to a release piece that appears to be co-located with the inner pitless piece. A Q/R?

Thanks...

 

[Drick]

In the event of an electrical fault in the pump resulting in the pump jacket becoming energized (along with the water and the well casing) the ground wire provides a path back to the panel to trip the breaker. The well is a great earth ground, but its a lousy return path back to the panel in the event of a fault. The resistance of the earth is simply too high to open a 15 amp breaker in most cases. The resistance of a copper ground wire on the other hand is about zero.

Also, the NEC requires that not only the pump be grounded but also the well casing itself.

-rick

 

[Upper]

So,your pump is only bad when there is company?Your pump maybe fine it just has no company.....Upper

 

[Speedbump]

The wire rope is a very thin diameter and goes down to a release piece that appears to be co-located with the inner pitless piece.

I believe you have a Snappy Pitless Adaptor and that wire releases the pitless so it can be pulled.

Make sure your not tying that ground into a neutral.

 

[Timagination]

DRick, thanks for the explanation of the ground wire's importance. The wire that is in place is a 2 conductor, very flexible "rubber" jacketed cable that is made for submersible applications. It appears to be in very good condition. Anything inherently wrong with appending another, submersible grade ground wire to the bundle with the tape I'm going to use every 2 feet?

The wire rope has a small tag on it which I found and it does describe the function of the attached piece. Still waiting for that strong backed kid to show up tho.........

 

[Drick]

Anything inherently wrong with appending another, submersible grade ground wire to the bundle with the tape I'm going to use every 2 feet?

Nope. Thats what I would do if the other conductors looked ok. Only thing I'd consider would be wrapping the ground around the existing conductors every foot or two as you go so your not just relying on the tape to keep them from separating.

-rick

 

[Speedbump]

Do you know what kind of pipe the pump is hanging on? Or are you using new pipe? If it's galvanized, 21 foot is plenty of taping if you use good tape and do it right. If it's poly, every ten foot is plenty. Every two feet is a bit of overkill.

 

[Timagination]

Built-in check valve

The pump is hanging on poly, and I will probably change out the wire entirely, as I can't seem to find a suitable single conductor. About another hundred bucks, so worth it I think.

More interestingly, my plumber friend laughed when I mentioned the check valve I'm planning to install just above the pump. He said the vendor included it with the order although he had not specified it. He says that in his experience, he seldom if ever installed a checkvalve in close proximity to a Goulds submersible pump as they incorporate a built in check valve. Just blow in it, he sez. Sure enough, it's built in, so should it be backed up directly above with a second valve that will doubtless impede the flow?

I only planned to use one checkvalve, at the pump, eliminating the one the previous idiots had installed at the tank.

 

[Speedbump]

The one in the pump is all you need.

 

[luka]

I believe you have a Snappy Pitless Adaptor and that wire releases the pitless so it can be pulled.

Make sure your not tying that ground into a neutral.

just a quick question, im new to this, but i have a water pump with a pressure tank on it with a bladder, the bladder is buggerd i think and the pump kicks in like every 5mins with no taps being turned on, is this caused from the bladder being stuffed, or could it be something else? if any1 knws much about this any info would be great. cheers!

 

[Speedbump]

What's more important than how often it goes on is how quick it pumps back up and shuts off. If it's very fast, like a few seconds, it's the tank for sure. If it's a minute or more, you probably have a leak somewhere.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Every 5 mins says you have a leak somewhere. Shut off the water to the house and see if the pump still runs, if it does you have a leak between the pump and the pump in the well or the foot valve in the well. If it doesn't you have a leak on the house side, maybe a toilet fill valve.

 

[Timagination]

Project completed. Notes

Pulled the pump last Monday morning with a couple of extra hands & strong backs on hand to assist. The "Snappy" pitless adaptor seems like a good design, I was able to break the thing free relatively easily once I had the Tee handle screwed in and a good strong tug on the wire rope handle did seem to help dislodge it.

The pump came out without a snag, the last thirty feet or so of the poly tubing being thoroughly coated with iron oxide/ sand like stuff. The pump was a 1/2 Franklin motor under a Goulds 7 GPM pump head and it is amazing to me that I was getting any water at all for the three years we've lived here. The date on the pump was 1986, and there was so much crud encrusted around the motor/ pump juncture where the water inlet is that there was very little waterway left. Interestingly, the pump was hung at only 100 feet although the county records indicated that the well was 181' as drilled.

I sounded the well with too small of a weight and encountered a "floaty" feeling false bottom right at about 100', the weight would slowly fall through this stuff if bounced but it was clearly in a lot of stuff........

Heavier weight plumbed down to about 165', and I initially attempted to set the new pump down to 140', to keep it 15' off the bottom. No way, Jose. That cushiony layer of stuff starting at about 100' wasn't going to get out of the way of the new pump either. I went to a 7 GPM 3/4 hp Goulds pump, new wire, (12/2 w/ grnd submersible pump wire), and new 1" poly rated at 160 PSI. When she wouldn't go down the hole I brought the whole mess back up and reconsidered. Called my plumber friend who thought I might be able to pump it out somehow, he wasn't sure on that so I started calling well drillers, afraid that I may in fact need a whole new hole in the ground.

None of them picked up, but I left messages and when, a few hours later, the return calls started coming in, there was a theme apparent right away. As soon as the words left my mouth that "I'm in the process of replacing my well pump, .....)they didn't want to even talk to me, with few exceptions. One gentleman though, who happened to be not five miles away drilling a well that day, was more than generous with his time and information. He listened to me detailing all of the above, then told me that I would be well (haha) advised to "surge" it out using a "pull behind air compressor". He laid it all out for me. Said to use one of those huge compressors like you use to run a jackhammer, safety wire the "Chicago" couplings on the fifty foot sections of compressor hose and lower a 10' length of 1" black iron pipe down with the compressor running. Said to be careful not to be leaning over the well casing when the pipe made it's way under the water level.

All good advice. I had to wait til the next morning to get the compressor and drive an hour to find the one coupling that allows you to join a Chicago fitting with IP, but it was worth it all. With the compressor running we lowered the pipe down the casing, once it submerged you could hear the bubbling and rushing and shortly thereafter, "rain" began to fly out of the ground. Shortly thereafter a 4" diameter plug of water erupted about five feet up. Followed by repeated, five to fifteen foot spurts as I advanced the pipe downwards. Lots and lots and lots of cold water. And excretia. Large volumes of conglomerated type iron oxide chips. We live in a sand well area. Confluence of five major rivers within 6 mile radius.

Anyhow, the surge seemed to be successful, thank you Gen P. The pump was subsequently set at 135' and went down smoothly. I ran it for a few hours....like freakin' crude oil at first..........gradual slow improvement and have run it off for more than 30 hrs since, it looks and tastes real good now.

Total cost for me to pull the well, replace all the major parts and surge the whole thing about $1200. New pump, motor, plastic pipe, wire, clamps, tee, gauge, switch, relief valve, boiler valve.......stainless barbs and large volume new pressure tank.

This site and you guys who participate in it helped me a lot.

Thanks.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Pulled the pump last Monday morning with a couple of extra hands & strong backs on hand to assist. The "Snappy" pitless adaptor seems like a good design, I was able to break the thing free relatively easily once I had the Tee handle screwed in and a good strong tug on the wire rope handle did seem to help dislodge it.

The pump came out without a snag, the last thirty feet or so of the poly tubing being thoroughly coated with iron oxide/ sand like stuff. The pump was a 1/2 Franklin motor under a Goulds 7 GPM pump head and it is amazing to me that I was getting any water at all for the three years we've lived here. The date on the pump was 1986, and there was so much crud encrusted around the motor/ pump juncture where the water inlet is that there was very little waterway left. Interestingly, the pump was hung at only 100 feet although the county records indicated that the well was 181' as drilled.

I sounded the well with too small of a weight and encountered a "floaty" feeling false bottom right at about 100', the weight would slowly fall through this stuff if bounced but it was clearly in a lot of stuff........

Heavier weight plumbed down to about 165', and I initially attempted to set the new pump down to 140', to keep it 15' off the bottom. No way, Jose. That cushiony layer of stuff starting at about 100' wasn't going to get out of the way of the new pump either. I went to a 7 GPM 3/4 hp Goulds pump, new wire, (12/2 w/ grnd submersible pump wire), and new 1" poly rated at 160 PSI. When she wouldn't go down the hole I brought the whole mess back up and reconsidered. Called my plumber friend who thought I might be able to pump it out somehow, he wasn't sure on that so I started calling well drillers, afraid that I may in fact need a whole new hole in the ground.

None of them picked up, but I left messages and when, a few hours later, the return calls started coming in, there was a theme apparent right away. As soon as the words left my mouth that "I'm in the process of replacing my well pump, .....)they didn't want to even talk to me, with few exceptions. One gentleman though, who happened to be not five miles away drilling a well that day, was more than generous with his time and information. He listened to me detailing all of the above, then told me that I would be well (haha) advised to "surge" it out using a "pull behind air compressor". He laid it all out for me. Said to use one of those huge compressors like you use to run a jackhammer, safety wire the "Chicago" couplings on the fifty foot sections of compressor hose and lower a 10' length of 1" black iron pipe down with the compressor running. Said to be careful not to be leaning over the well casing when the pipe made it's way under the water level.

All good advice. I had to wait til the next morning to get the compressor and drive an hour to find the one coupling that allows you to join a Chicago fitting with IP, but it was worth it all. With the compressor running we lowered the pipe down the casing, once it submerged you could hear the bubbling and rushing and shortly thereafter, "rain" began to fly out of the ground. Shortly thereafter a 4" diameter plug of water erupted about five feet up. Followed by repeated, five to fifteen foot spurts as I advanced the pipe downwards. Lots and lots and lots of cold water. And excretia. Large volumes of conglomerated type iron oxide chips. We live in a sand well area. Confluence of five major rivers within 6 mile radius.

Anyhow, the surge seemed to be successful, thank you Gen P. The pump was subsequently set at 135' and went down smoothly. I ran it for a few hours....like freakin' crude oil at first..........gradual slow improvement and have run it off for more than 30 hrs since, it looks and tastes real good now.

Total cost for me to pull the well, replace all the major parts and surge the whole thing about $1200. New pump, motor, plastic pipe, wire, clamps, tee, gauge, switch, relief valve, boiler valve.......stainless barbs and large volume new pressure tank.

This site and you guys who participate in it helped me a lot.

Thanks.

That's what we like to hear, a successful DIYer job after getting a little help.

Sad to say that your negative experience with drillers is the norm from what I know but as you found, there's always one that will unselfishly pass on their expertise, free of charge.

 

[Speedbump]

I know you didn't ask; but I would have done the whole thing for $1195.00

 

[Valveman]

I am glad everything worked out. You saved a lot of money on that job. I would buy that driller a big box of steaks or something. With a well like yours, you are probably going to need his help again some day.

 

[Timagination]

Forgot to mention this part. The well driller whom I spoke with at length was acquainted with the company that had, in all probability based upon the date of install and our "sand well" area, drilled the well back in '86. (Shore Well Drillers, Cecil County, MD). He told me that the constrictions that I was encountering, particularly deeper than about 140', were probably because of the "telescope" of the well casing.

This company did most all of the wells here on Elk Neck in the '80s and their usual practice was to use 2" casing for the bottom-most 40 to 60 feet and then transition to 4" casing above. Apparently it was done as a cost-cutting measure, and most all of the wells done around here by that company are similar. While I did not employ a camera scan to be absolutely positive about this, the soundings did seem to indicate a transition at about 160', hence the decision to set the pump at 140'.

We'll see how it all pans out. Thanks again.