Delta R10000 Shower Valve With PEX - best practices

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Clutchcargo

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I'm installing a shower valve and diverter. The shower circuit is going to be a home run using PEX.
Is there any benefit to use a valve body with 1/2" inlets and then sweat in a couple elbows and PEX adapters?
Will the PEX with bends and shower faucet fit within a 14" stud cavity?

Also, I think I read here that using PEX to the shower drop ear is not a good idea. Why is this? or is this a memory that I fabricated?


TIA
 

Terry

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If you bothered to read the instructions for the Delta tub/shower valve, you would have seen the warning against using PEX to the tub spout.
PEX is smaller than copper, and the reduced sizing pushes water upward to the shower head while filling the tub. Maybe not a big deal, but some people don't like that.
So...............the instructions mention running full size copper or pipe nipples, (brass is good) to a tub spout.

You can use PEX to the shower head, it's flow restricted anyway. Most of the PEX drop ear 90's have three screw holes.
I still wind up using copper to the shower head, it's a bit stiffer and it's what I'm used to.

The tub spouts for sure get copper or nipples.
 
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Clutchcargo

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Thanks all. My build is shower only. I guess I mixed up the requirements to spout vs. showerhead.
 

Clutchcargo

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I read the Aquapex install guide. The minimum bend is 5" c-c. That would leave me with less than 4" for the valve in my 14" stud cavity.
But... apparently Uponor has this covered with tub elbows.
 

Nukedaddy

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I read the reasons for not using PEX to the tub spout or shower head. The mechanical strength issues make sense, you don’t want the spout or shower flopping about. The 3-hole drop ear ells are good. I do wish they made them even wider spread apart for a greater resistance to the moment arm of possible forces on the spout or shower arm. Especially when using long ran rainfall heads.
But the deal of reduced floe in the line to the spout? Is the reduction actually enough to overcome the internal diverter built into the faucet body? Maybe we should return to using twin ell diverter like in the 1950’s! And I expect the problem would not exist in tub/shower valves with push button shower diverters in the faucet body. Or 3-handle valves where still allowed by code.
 

John Gayewski

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R10000 directions are general directions. The tub spout being copper is for when the diverter is in the spout.

I don't know why anyone would want to use PEX on it anyway. Unless your doing 100s of them and want the speed.
 

Nukedaddy

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Hmmm… I think we have a terminology issue. Yes, they do call tub spouts with a lift button or some other actuator thingy a diverter spout, but for many years now manufacturers have put a diverter device, maybe call it a diverter restrictor, in the body of valves that are intended for tub and shower use. It is visible on many. if a valve is intended for tub only or shower only the diverter restrictor is not included.
The presence of the diverter restrictor is what allows installers to simply pipe up and down to the shower head and tub spout with a lift diverter. The function of the in-body diverter prevent water from dribbling out of the shower head when filling the tub. Prior to the introduction of in-body diverter restrictors plumbers had to plug the top outlet of the valve, pipe down to a fitting called a “twin ell” which provided the needed restriction to prevent showerhead dribbling. The twin ell had two 1/2” tappings on top and a 3/4 on the side. The 3/4 goes to the tub spout with lift diverter. One 1/2” tapping gets the line from the valve, the other pipes all the way back up to the shower head.
 

John Gayewski

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Hmmm… I think we have a terminology issue. Yes, they do call tub spouts with a lift button or some other actuator thingy a diverter spout, but for many years now manufacturers have put a diverter device, maybe call it a diverter restrictor, in the body of valves that are intended for tub and shower use. It is visible on many. if a valve is intended for tub only or shower only the diverter restrictor is not included.
The presence of the diverter restrictor is what allows installers to simply pipe up and down to the shower head and tub spout with a lift diverter. The function of the in-body diverter prevent water from dribbling out of the shower head when filling the tub. Prior to the introduction of in-body diverter restrictors plumbers had to plug the top outlet of the valve, pipe down to a fitting called a “twin ell” which provided the needed restriction to prevent showerhead dribbling. The twin ell had two 1/2” tappings on top and a 3/4 on the side. The 3/4 goes to the tub spout with lift diverter. One 1/2” tapping gets the line from the valve, the other pipes all the way back up to the shower head.
The delta r10000 has a larger pathway for the tub. That's enough for the water to move down without anything built into the cartridge. That's why there's a right side up clearly written on them. I recently installed 96 of these. They are intended to be a universal rough valve. Any configuration the user wishes.
 

Nukedaddy

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Does the R1000 have a larger “down” than 1/2” fip or sweat? Is the “up” 1/2” fip or sweat? If the up and down are the same but the “delta r1000 has a larger pathway for the tub” then there is a diverter restrictor device in the valve body. It does not have to be in the cartridge. But it is there.
 
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