Deep Well Submersed Pump cycles 30 sec on/2 min off (240v on pump throughout cycle) repeating until pressure switch limit (60psi) is reached

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ctbrads

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When pressure switch demands water, deep well turns on, runs for 30 seconds and turns off for 2 to 2-1/2 minutes. It repeats this cycle several times until water pressure reaches the shutoff limit (60 psi). 240v pressure switch is closed throughout this cycle (never opening) and 240v is going to pump continuously until the 60 psi shutoff limit is reached. Well is not dry (500+ gal of water was just added). Pressure switch was replaced with no difference. Pressure tank was replaced. Sediment is present in the water. Does my submersed well pump need to be replaced? It refills flushed toilets ok but cannot keep up with the washer fills.
 

Clyde Logan

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Two thoughts:
1. Failed run capacitor in well control box.
2. Faulty control box relay not making the switch from start capacitor to run capacitor.
 

Bgard

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When pressure switch demands water, deep well turns on, runs for 30 seconds and turns off for 2 to 2-1/2 minutes. It repeats this cycle several times until water pressure reaches the shutoff limit (60 psi). 240v pressure switch is closed throughout this cycle (never opening) and 240v is going to pump continuously until the 60 psi shutoff limit is reached. Well is not dry (500+ gal of water was just added). Pressure switch was replaced with no difference. Pressure tank was replaced. Sediment is present in the water. Does my submersed well pump need to be replaced? It refills flushed toilets ok but cannot keep up with the washer fills.
Sounds like your pump is cycling on it’s internal overload protection switch, the pump runs for 30 seconds, gets hot and turns itself off for 2.5 minutes and cools off then restarts, and this cycle repeats. Most likely the pump will need to be replaced. Or there could be a bad run capacitor in the control box, but it sounds like this has been happening for a while now so the pump is probably shot by now anyway.
 

Slomoola

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If it's pumping water, shouldn't be a motor heat issue. Sediment could be clogging the pump, it's too deep sucking dirt or you just have a dirty well. Again if it's pumping the cap "sounds" good. Do these motors even have caps?

To me the uninformed, sounds like you have either a dry well, crack in the pipe down low or in the motor. More likely a jacked up impeller. Pull the sucker up and inspect the motor and impeller.
 
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Slomoola

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Faulty control box relay not making the switch from start capacitor to run capacitor.
What is this? In a water well? Pressure switch closes and send 240 to the motor. Pump pressurizes the system. You get water. When PSI is reached the motor shuts off via the pressure switch. What did I miss?
 

LLigetfa

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If it's pumping water, shouldn't be a motor heat issue.
No, it is not that simple. Water only cools the motor adequately if there is sufficient volume of water flowing past and contacting the motor housing. If the motor is in a large diameter casing or bore hole, the flow might not be enough to cool the motor. If the motor is buried in sediment, the flow may not be enough to cool the motor.
 

Clyde Logan

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I am talking about a water well with a three wire submersible pump. Pressure switch sends power to a control box. The control box has a start capacitor and a run capacitor and relay. Startup power initially goes to well pump through the start capacitor and then the relay routes well pump power to the run capacitor.

A two wire well pump does not have a control box; the pressure switch directs power directly to the pump.
 

ctbrads

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Sounds like your pump is cycling on it’s internal overload protection switch, the pump runs for 30 seconds, gets hot and turns itself off for 2.5 minutes and cools off then restarts, and this cycle repeats. Most likely the pump will need to be replaced. Or there could be a bad run capacitor in the control box, but it sounds like this has been happening for a while now so the pump is probably shot by now anyway.
Would a plugged screen (on the pump itself) be causing it to overheat)?
 

ctbrads

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No, it is not that simple. Water only cools the motor adequately if there is sufficient volume of water flowing past and contacting the motor housing. If the motor is in a large diameter casing or bore hole, the flow might not be enough to cool the motor. If the motor is buried in sediment, the flow may not be enough to cool the motor.
So, the sediment, if excessive, may be blocking the flow of water, causing the pump to overheat? Is there a screen on the submerged pump that may be plugged with sediment? Strange that I've never noticed a sediment issues with this well until this problem. My washing machine water line in screen gets plugged with sediment every time I use it now. But never before.
 

LLigetfa

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The motor is below the intake, so if the sediment has filled the casing up to the level of the intake, there probably is not enough flow going past the motor to cool it. There is a coarse intake screen that can get plugged with small stones reducing the flow but that is not likely to be the problem.

Sediment can also be from the short cycling of the pump stirring it up and might not actually bury the motor. A busted bladder/diaphragm on a captive air tank can also manifest as a sediment problem.
 

Reach4

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I am talking about a water well with a three wire submersible pump. Pressure switch sends power to a control box. The control box has a start capacitor and a run capacitor and relay. Startup power initially goes to well pump through the start capacitor and then the relay routes well pump power to the run capacitor.
A failed run capacitor does not normally cause the motor to directly stop running. I guess if the capacitor failed shorted, it could cause excess current, and an overtemperature in the motor. A run capacitor failed open (or disconnected) would not cause the overheating, and the motor would consume just a little extra power.
 

Bgard

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If the start relay Is not taking the start capacitor out of the circuit, it will keep the motor start winding stay engaged and will cause the motor to overheat,
 

Valveman

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This is the typical failure mode for a submersible pump. The start cap or relay could be bad, but usually won't pump for 30 seconds when that happens. I would not pull the pump until I tried a new control box with start cap and relay. But if same thing happens with a new box, the pump/motor will need to be replaced.

The overload in the motor is tripping. It will automatically reset in a minute or two and try again. It has probably been doing that for a while and you just didn't notice. The auto resetting overload was designed to help the pump fail early. With the old red button Klixon type overload you knew the first time it tripped and started looking for a bad tank or what ever was making the pump cycle on and off. But with the auto resetting overloads, you don't know the pump is cycling itself to death until it is too late. Planned that way, sorry!

Add a Cycle Stop Valve when you get it working and you will never have that problem again.

 

Slomoola

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No, it is not that simple. Water only cools the motor adequately if there is sufficient volume of water flowing past and contacting the motor housing. If the motor is in a large diameter casing or bore hole, the flow might not be enough to cool the motor. If the motor is buried in sediment, the flow may not be enough to cool the motor.
Sure if it's encased in mud I get it, might over heat. Guy said it pumps water. Just not normal in flow.

If the motor is in water, it's cooled.

No way of telling anything until the pump gets pulled. Again I'm going with a broken impeller, cracked motor housing or pipe sucking air.
 

LLigetfa

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If the motor is in water, it's cooled.
A motor in a large borehole/body of water or in a top-fed borehole should have a cooling shroud to direct cooling water flow past the motor depending on the HP and GPM. Simply being immersed might not be enough. That said, such a scenario should not manifest in the very first 30 seconds of runtime but could manifest in subsequent runtimes following an auto-reset.
 

Slomoola

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Like LL says, submersed in water doesn't keep the motor cool, only water flowing past the motor keeps it cool. The water around the motor can actually be boiling while cold water is pumped up the pipe.
I'm sure you two are on to something. I just can't get it through the ol' peanut myself LOL. If there is water on the outside of the motor, is there not water on the inside pumping or not? If the motor and pipe are submerged.......

Agree it would take time for a heat related motor issue. He is getting water just not full bore bathing parties. Thanks guys. Trying to learn something here. Great group of guys and a heck of a friendly forum.
 

Valveman

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Many things about a pump system are counter intuitive. Cooling flow for a submersible motor is measured in feet per second. A flow of at least 0.25 FPS and usually 0.5 FPS is required to keep the motor cool. What you are saying would be similar to saying a radiator is in the air, so it shouldn't get hot. But if the fan is not blowing air through the radiator it is not cooling the water. Same way if the water flow is not moving past the motor, it is not getting any cooling. A flow inducer or shroud makes the water flow past the motor before being sucked into the intake and keeps the motor cool.

Flow Inducer Installation.jpg
 

Slomoola

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Okay okay, his poor water "flow" could cause poor cooling. Sounds perfectly reasonable. From my keyboard, don't know how much flow there is. Appreciate the wisdom sir.
 
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