Bubbles in downstairs toilet

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by gagecalman, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Hello to all and thanks for an awesome site.
    I am new to the forum and trying to learn and help where I can.

    Here is my problem:
    Replaced upstairs toilet with an American Standard with a 4" flush valve. When I flush it now I get bubbles in the downstairs toilet. The main line is clean.
    I removed the clean-out plug so the 3" pipe can vent and it eliminates the bubbles.
    All cast iron is 3".

    In the first picture:
    Black pipe to kitchen-no vent.
    Drain on ground goes under tarp and out to the street.
    Drain that goes vertical goes to upstairs bath (toilet, lav and tub) and continues thru roof.

    In the second picture the pipe with the clean out goes to a toilet and sink-no vents. Toilet is about 24" from wall.

    The last picture shows the pipe going into the wall before it goes vertical to the upstairs bathroom.

    Any help would be appreciated. Should the cast iron be replaced?

    Thanks for your time,
    Jim


    Bob's crawlspace 2.jpg Bob Hand's bathroom 008.jpg Bob's main drain 2.JPG Bob's crawlspace 3.jpg
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Is A the clean-out plug that you said you opened? img_4.jpg
     
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  4. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    No. I removed plug B.
    I don't know what A is. If you look at the second picture it appears that used to go into a hole in the block wall to the left.
    Thanks fro the reply.
     
  5. plumber69

    plumber69 In the Trades

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2014
    Location:
    Prince Rupert, British Columbia
    Hard to see what's going on. Your new toilet flushes faster and is siphoning your other toilet. It just needs more air
     
  6. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    It's actually pushing air into the lower toilet. I put some plastic wrap over the clean out hole and I can see it pushing out. You can also see a little water coming back as well.

    There are no vents on anything on the lower level or on the kitchen sink (black pipe).

    I was wondering if it is the way the vertical pipe enters the horizontal pipe. I don't know if that fitting is considered a combo or a sani-tee.
    I don't know if they ran the vertical pipe to that point to act as a wet vent for the lower toilet. It looks like they could have tied in closer to where the drain exits the house but they came in the opposite direction first.

    If this were plumbed today under the IPC how would it be done?
     
  7. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I took another look at this.
    The main is actually 4" (duh). The tee is a 4" x 3" x 3". I am going to replace the cast iron starting from the 4" just under the tarp to where the 3" goes into the wall for the lower toilet (block wall in second picture). I will also run a 2" vent from about where the 3" cleanout is up into the attic and out thru the roof. This will vent the lower level toilet. The cast iron looks like it is falling down anyway.
    I plan to tie in the upstairs 3" closer to the street instead of going in where it does noy.

    Here are my questions:
    Is better to run the 3" from the upstairs bathroom into the top of the main line (like it is now) or into the side of the main using a wye laying flat?

    What is the best way to adapt from 4" to 3"? Use a 4" x 3" x 3" wye with a 4" shielded coupling or a 3" wye and a 4" to 3" shielded coupling". I didn't know if it helps to have the bigger wye.

    Thanks for any advice.
     
  8. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I would consider replacing the cast.
    I would also add venting for the kitchen sink, and AAV would work there, a vent for the downstairs lav and toilet.
    What you have now is a santee fitting that the upstairs dumps into. that should have been a wye fitting.
     
  9. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Please help with this:

    Is better to run the 3" from the upstairs bathroom into the side of the main using a wye lying flat or into the top of the main line (like it is now)?
    It seems like it would flow better going into the side instead of dumping into the top.

    What is the best way to adapt from 4" to 3"? Use a 4" x 3" x 3" wye with a 4" shielded coupling or a 3" wye and a 4" to 3" shielded coupling".
    I didn't know if it helps to have the bigger wye.
     
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You can run three toilets on 3".
    The smaller line has better drainline carry with more flotation. If you are running into the existing 4" cast, then maybe a 4 x 3 wye. You can use a reducer after the way it that's the end of the cast too.
    I would measure the old cast pipe. Sometimes it's a copper size. If the OD is 4-1/8", that's a copper size coupling. In that case, I use a copper x no-hub coupling. A plastic x plastic won't snug up correctly around a smaller dimension like that.
     
  11. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Hi Terry,
    As a general rule is better to run the 3" from the upstairs bathroom into the side of the main using a wye lying flat or into the top of the main line (like it is now)?
    It seems like it would flow better going into the side instead of dumping into the top.
    Thank you very much Terry.
     
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I prefer into the top. Why add an extra bend to slow things down?
     
  13. gagecalman

    gagecalman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Awesome!
    Thanks again for all of your help and have a great day.
    Jim
     
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