Another question: generator power necessary for 1/2 hp pump jet pump

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by rgs, Oct 8, 2016.

  1. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    I need to get a generator, primarily to keep water flowing from through our Myers 1/2 hp 110v shallow well jet pump when the power goes out. The generator I'd like to get is the Yamaha EF3000iseb which is rated at 2800 watts continuous and capable of surging to 3500 using its battery. I've seen a lot of opinions yes and no on whether 3000 watt generators can run 1/2 hp pumps so, since I have a spare pump I thought I'd take it with me when I go to buy the generator and ask them to try it in the shop. My question is this: will a test of the generator and pump in the store give me an accurate reading on whether the pump will work hooked up to the actual water line which is about 100' long with about 20' of lift?
     
  2. hj

    hj Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    No. An "unloaded" pump does not draw anywhere near the same current as an operating one. Look at the rating plate and find the amp draw, then get a generator which has a greater capacity.
     
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    If you want a closer-to-worst case test, consider looping the input and output to a garbage can with enough water. Start, and let the air get cleared out. Then restart with the water circulating with no bubbles.

    This would be for typical.

    People speak well of the Honda EU2000i 2,000-Watt Portable Inverter Generator for such use.
     
  5. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Thanks for the responses.

    HJ, it's the inrush that that I'm worried about. The plate on the pump says 10.6 amps. If the inrush is double that, I'm fine. If it's triple that I'm right on the edge. If it's more than triple it probably won't work.

    Reach4, I kinda suspected I would have to do something like that. Yeah, if the Honda EU2000i will do it the Yamaha 3000i definitely will.
     
  6. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
  7. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Thanks, WorthFlorida. Very interesting. My pump is an "L" and the face plate says "Amps 8.6/9.3" and "Max Amps 11.6/5.8".

    So if I'm reading this correctly, the first number is at 110v and the second number at 220v. Which should mean that the most watts I should worry about is 1276? If that's the case even the Honda EU2000i should be able to handle it, should it not? Or will the inrush load still drive it higher?
     
  8. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    An electric motor is an inductive load (measured by impedance) and at a lock rotor mode or at start up the resistance is very low. When power is first applied there is that inrush of current, two or three times the rated running amps. You cannot go by watts. If it was a water heater or light bulbs, resistive' loads, then watts can be used. Most the these small generators are not very well regulated and usually will have trouble getting a motor started. Good for small hand tools like drills and saws. A water pump doesn't take that much torque to get it started but a washing machine motor for the spin mode does. I looked up the Honda generator and it is a 2000 VA rating, not 2000 watts. If you've taken a class on AC motors you'll understand what impedance is all about. I do not think this nice little generator will work for your pump. You have to have a generator that can get the motor started, then able to keep it running at minimum voltages and AC frequency and as the pressure builds up in the pressure tank, it must handle the increasing load. Looking at the Yamaha model will be a better choice. It has chart that is helpful.

    https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/power-product/pages/generator-sizing-chart

    If you're bored and want some light reading this explains impedance's. http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/5950-3000.pdf

    AC motors will always run cooler and more efficient at 220 volt. If 220v is available, always go with the 220 volt connection.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Unfortunately the little quiet inverter-type generators from Honda or Yamaha are not 120/240 volts.
     
  10. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Thanks again, WorthFlorida. Clears it up a bit more. My only problem with the Yamaha is the weight. My wife and I are both in our '70s so that's becoming more of an issue. Maybe I should think of two Honda 2000i's running in parallel. What do you think of this? Maximum amps output 26.6 according to Honda.
    http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/generator-parallel-capability
     
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Some generators are designed to be used in parallel, some are not. You can blow things up if you try and they aren't or you don't do it right even if they are. They must be able to run in sync with each other or they could cancel out giving anywhere from zero to the 240vac load, and burn themselves up in the process. Their phasing is critical when run in parallel.
     
  13. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Thanks for the warning. I'm sure it's true but as I understand, the eu2000 is designed to be run in parallel according to Honda.
     
  14. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    RGS, if you have a a dealer nearby that sells these small generators, stop by and ask if they have a used one around. Tell them your situation and you might be able to borrow or rent one to see if it will work. Or go to a rental shop and rent one.
    I know what you mean by weight. I just turned 67 and for years I've notice the strength is just not there as it once was. I do a lot of strenuous work and the strength does not come back. I retire in three months. A few years ago I could lift my 5500 watt generator into the truck. Now I need to ask for help.
     
  15. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Good suggestion, WorthFlorida.

    At this point I'm leaning towards the Honda EU1000i with the Eu1000i Companion. 3,200 watts continuous and 4,000 watts surge when running in parallel. Yes, and the downhill from 67 to 79 gets even steeper. I'd rather make two trips with two 50 pound generators than one trip with a 150 pounder. :)
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I would try the one generator first.
     
  17. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Occupation:
    Rocket Scientist
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I would not waste my time using a 1000 watt generator, or 2.

    Your first choice Yamaha EF3000iseb was better.

    It has wheels and should not be hard to move around, And the electric start is a plus.

    You would have enough power to power a freezer and other things too.
     
  18. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Well, after going back and forth quite a bit, I went with the Yamaha EF3000iseb. It's rather heavy at 150 lbs empty and I won't be moving it very far (nothing but grass around my place), that's for sure, but it should do the job and provide some extra power, I hope, for the fridge, computer and TV. Thanks again to everyone for the assistance. All of it helped a lot.
     
    DonL likes this.
  19. WorthFlorida

    WorthFlorida The wife is still training me.

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Orlando, Florida
    I looked it up on the Yamaha web site and it's a really niced unit. It list that it will run an air conditioner up to 13,000 btu's so there should be no problem powering your pump. For the most part the pump will run a few minutes at a time during a power outage so there be no problem handling the refigerator as well. It also shows an overload light which is good.

    The best part is the noise level. I have a standard Toro generator and I just fired it up before Hurricane Matthew when it was at our door step. That engine running in the background for hours can drive you nuts. Well, Matthew missed us in south Florida but from Datona Beach area and north got the brunt of it.

    The next important part is extension cords. Be sure to use ones with at least 14 gauge wire and buy or make them with the shortest lenght possible for the appliance. The worse cord is the 100 foot 16 gauge. Everyone buys them because they are cheap. The long length allows too much of a voltage drop for any appliance with motors. For lights and some electronics it would be OK.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  20. rgs

    rgs Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Interesting that Hurricane Matthew missed you in south Florida and sideswiped us at the other end of the eastern seaboard in Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. Sunday night was strong winds and torrential rain, millions of dollars worth of damage in some places, but by Wednesday, it was sunny and calm and then Wednesday afternoon our power went out and was out till noon Thursday. A late aftershock, I guess.

    I got a 12 gauge cord to go from the generator to the house. 50 foot length. I was looking for 10 gauge but the electric shop assured me 12 was OK. Hope they're right. How do you cover your generator when you have to run it outside in inclement weather?
     
  21. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Occupation:
    Rocket Scientist
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    12 Gauge is fine for 50 ft.

    You can make a cover using PVC pipe.

    [​IMG]

    Real nice ones can get expensive.

    upload_2016-10-15_7-21-43.jpeg

    I run mine on a covered porch normally.
     
    LibertyDiY likes this.
Similar Threads: Another question
Forum Title Date
Electrical Forum discussion & Blog Another Generator Question Nov 14, 2018
Electrical Forum discussion & Blog Another Hot Tub Wiring Question: Ground Wire Size/Type Oct 12, 2017
Electrical Forum discussion & Blog Another grounding question... Mar 16, 2010
Electrical Forum discussion & Blog Another GFCI question .. Mar 23, 2009
Electrical Forum discussion & Blog Another question Mar 21, 2008

Share This Page