Advice on what to do with rusty drain in Shower Stall

[bls]

Hello Everyone and Happy New Year.

I actually posted this in a different way before and got great information. Below is what the shower stall looks like to get an idea of the whole thing. Brand new condo, Marble shower stall, rusty drain.

Now I have a problem which some say is intractable.

Here are some pictures of the drain that is causing my lack of sleep :-(

The part circled in blue is rust. The square piece is mortared and grouted into the marble tiles. The rust can be cleaned off but then it comes right back. Please see following pictures.

Here the rust is coming back and it appears there are holes in whatever the square piece is called. I have tried three methods to prevent the rust from returning, all failed.

So, I don't know whether the rust is coming from the bottom up and this is a hole or is surface. Either way, replacing the square piece seems to be necessary since rust, once started, will just eat this away. I am under warranty now and actually have no idea what to do.

I probably left some important items out and I am happy to answer any questions.

Just asking for advice. What to do, who should inspect, and items of that nature.

Removing and replacing the square piece is apparently a HUGE job and very costly as in thousands? I don't know this... but I am a bit concerned to say the least.

Thanks to those to answer and who helped before with another issue. This is a great forum.

 

[Reach4]

Confirm that a magnet is strongly attracted to the square piece.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bls]

Confirm that a magnet is strongly attracted to the square piece.

This is one interesting response. Love it.

Yes. The material is magnetic. Strongly so. Hence (if it is "stainless"), of the types of "stainless," it is not austenitic. That leaves ferritic. And this assumes it's not some other cheap material that happens to attract magnets.

Anyway, thank you for your response and I am very interested in the relationship between rust and the atomic arrangement of a drain

Happy New Year.

 

[Reach4]

I have not ever tried anything like these, but you might find these links as a starting point for more searching:

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=49889
http://www.caswellplating.com/elect...ting-kits/plug-n-plater-black-nickel-kit.html
https://www.google.com/#q=brush plating

Rust can be removed by the opposite flow https://www.google.com/#q=rust+removal+reduction but then plating could be used to prevent further rusting.

Putting in a shower drain with a surface that rusts seems substandard. I had wondered if maybe the stainless had somehow gotten a flaw of scrap steel that got melted into a stainless steel production without getting mixed in during the mix. I don't know if such a thing could happen.

 

[bls]

Thank you. "Low bidder wins." That's how this happens all the time.

This place is under warranty. Tearing out an entire shower because someone saved about thirty cents on a drain is what this may come down to.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would guess it all depends on the terms of your warranty. It's a bad deal for both the builder and the owner, because the drain manufacturer is not very likely to be of any assistance. If it were surface rust, I probably try to clean it thoroughly and then apply a clear coat of lacquer to seal it. I would never be happy with it, but I don't think you are going to be happy with anything that come out of this.

 

[bls]

Thanks for your response. I'd be fine if it is surface rust. That has to happen all the time if someone were to somehow scratch a drain in a shower or a tub.

By the way I did try automotive lacquer (clear coat) to no avail. It's not hydrophobic. However cyanoacrylate is. That's the latest test.

So far there is not a person nor a technology that I have come across that can tell me if it's surface rust or rust from below eating its way through.

If it's the latter, then no, I am not happy. The only way to repair that is a new drain. That is a new floor. That invites all sorts of issues.

In this case, this is called "latent" damage.

Perhaps someone will invent a way to determine where the oxidation source is. Thank you.

 

[Jadnashua]

Does it buff off? Is there any irregularity in the surface in elevation (pitting, divots, etc.)? When some things rust (ozidize) they actually seal the elemental material below (aluminum is that way - it rusts easily, but the rust forms a seal protecting the rest). Iron oxide (common rust as we think of it) creates a molecule that is significantly larger than the elemental iron, and thus tents over it, exposing more elemental iron. This is the reason that iron based metals can eventually completely turn to rust.

The drain could be buffed to remove all of the rust, then plated. Since chrome won't directly stick to steel, they have to do a few layers as intermediate bonding materials before it can be plated with chrome...but, it could be done. IF the surface isn't able to be made smooth, though, that imperfection will show through the chrome plating. Probably much cheaper than tearing out a functioning shower (course, that may not actually be true - time will tell!). There are lots of ways to make a well-performing shower, but LOTS MORE of them mess up some little detail, and will not perform great long-term.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

The drain could be buffed to remove all of the rust, then plated. Since chrome won't directly stick to steel, they have to do a few layers as intermediate bonding materials before it can be plated with chrome...but, it could be done. IF the surface isn't able to be made smooth, though, that imperfection will show through the chrome plating. Probably much cheaper than tearing out a functioning shower (course, that may not actually be true - time will tell!). There are lots of ways to make a well-performing shower, but LOTS MORE of them mess up some little detail, and will not perform great long-term.

How do you propose that one could chrome plate a shower drain that is installed in a shower???
Have you ever been to a facility that does chrome plating?

 

[Jadnashua]

Back when chrome bumpers were common, there were lots more places that would be able to rechrome pieces. Unscrew it, pop it out. Search the web or the local phone book and see if there's a place that rechromes things. IF you can't find one locally, at least it would be cheap to ship it to a place that can do it. It certainly CAN'T be done in place, and if it is from the top of the drain, and not the cover, you're out of luck.

It's a good learning experience about going with the low bidder! SS, or plated brass is the way to go when lots of water is involved. I'd prefer a metal body, but a pvc or abs one works as well.

 

[bls]

Thanks to all for the responses and the patience with me. Way back on top, where I describe the initial issue (multimedia with pictures ), the main thing is described.

The drain plate cannot come out. If it comes out, everything comes out.

Hence the question about the primary source of the rust. Bottom up, eventually it eats the entire drain plate. Could be a year, ten years, or six months (to form a hole). Just a scratch on top, different story. That might be ameliorated with a coating of some kind that is hydrophobic and resistant. I can say that over the months that this is gong on, once cleaned, the surface looks the same. Here is a picture from a day ago which compares favorably to one of a month ago. Rust moves fast. This is not conclusive but tends to indicate surface. But I am not the right person to make this call. An expert is, should such a being exist.

My initial question is still, in the universe of metallurgy and plumbing, is there a way to determine the primary source of rust without moving the drain plate? Said another way, is there a discipline (plumber, engineer, etc) who could consult on this?

Many thanks to anyone who can help with this (now) seemingly intractable issue.

Happy New Year!

 

[Jadnashua]

WHere that is, it will only get worse with time. You're right, that cannot come out without tearing the shower apart. Now, assuming it is a clamping drain, you may not need to demolish the whole pan, but enough around the drain to remove the top half and replace it. It's not all that easy to do without damaging the liner, then you'd have to demolish more. Some places require a metal drain assembly, but if yours does not, a plastic one may have worked out better with a quality SS or plated brass cover.

One reason why I like surface applied membranes and a bonded membrane drain assembly. The body of the drain is either SS or all plastic, and the grate is non-ferrous so there's no possibility of rust.

 

[bls]

Thank you. This is a tough one and is costing me sleep.

Hoping there is an answer out there somewhere ...

 

[Reach4]

Thank you. This is a tough one and is costing me sleep.

Hoping there is an answer out there somewhere ...

How about electroplating done in place? Search for electroplating at home. Search for brush electroplating. Maybe ask the guy on CL who does the on site gold plating in Chicago if he does nickle.

 

[Jadnashua]

How about electroplating done in place? Search for electroplating at home. Search for brush electroplating. Maybe ask the guy on CL who does the on site gold plating in Chicago if he does nickle.

It's really hard to eliminate all of the existing rust when in place like that...IOW, plating on top of it will often not work. Rust is larger in volume than elemental iron, and in a pit like that, almost impossible to eliminate. One could try, no idea what it would cost, but probably better put towards fixing it right.

 

[Reach4]

It certainly CAN'T be done in place

It's really hard to eliminate all of the existing rust when in place like that...IOW, plating on top of it will often not work. Rust is larger in volume than elemental iron, and in a pit like that, almost impossible to eliminate. One could try, no idea what it would cost, but probably better put towards fixing it right.

He already eliminates the existing rust on the top. He wants it to stop re-rusting.
"One could try, no idea what it would cost," is an evolution from "It certainly CAN'T be done".

 

[Jadnashua]

It's almost impossible to remove all of the rust from the pits in the metal without grinding it down.

 

[Jadnashua]

It's almost impossible to remove all of the rust from the pits in the metal without grinding it down.

 

[bls]

View attachment 32243 Thanks again to all who have posted. I am learning a lot

I don't know the "anatomy of a shower stall."

I do know the anatomy of Win 10 though (to some degree).

Another idea came to mind. Would a replacement of only the area in shown in blue below be doable?

Then, if so and if not, would anyone hazard a guess as to the cost of partial and/or complete replacement of the drain top by professionals where I just write a check (I would have to have some contrasting marble I guess)? just a SWAG so I can plan for the future.

Finally what kind of company would do the whole thing from start to finish?

Many thanks again for letting be bother everyone! Very helpful responses much appreciated.

 

[Jadnashua]

Possible, maybe, finding someone to do it, probably not. The hassle is, if there are ever any problems with the shower afterwards, the last guy that touches it will get the blame and he/she will not know how the rest of it was built, and if there are other problems that have not shown up yet.

Most places that might consider it would only do a full pan replacement which would mean tearing out the bottom row of tile and most of the curb to ensure that the pan is installed correctly over the whole pan and curb area. By the time you've done that, the extra cost to redo the whole thing isn't all that much.

It's hard to remove just the top layer around the drain without damaging the liner. If that could be done, then they could remove the top of the clamping drain, install a new one, and redo the rest. It's just too risky that a hole may be put into the liner, and while patching might be done successfully, it's even hard to reliably flood test since the setting bed is so porous, verifying the level is tough. Obvious leaks should show up.

Suggest you post over at www.johnbridge.com and see if any of the many tile pros there have different ideas. Lots more years of experience there than here on tiled showers.