5600SXT BR issue

[kingrocks]

From past month I have had issues with my 1 year old water softerner where it stopped doing BD and used to add more water during BF. I was able to clean the air check valve and BD and BF worked fine for 12 days. Last 2 days water was not tasting well and mine regenerated last night and surprised to see there is no brine left in the tank after the regeneration process. I added some water today afternoon and did one more regeneration and after one hour it still didn't add any brine to the tank? Any suggestions?

 

[Bannerman]

If you loosen the brine line at the control valve, manually advance the controller to Brine Fill to see if water will flow from the connection port. If there is little water being discharged from that port, then the source of the issue is internal to the controller. Start with removal and cleaning of the injector screen and 2 pc injector as well as the BLFC button. Note which orientation the button was installed so as to return it in the correct direction. The inner hole is tapered and must be installed in the correct direction with the narrow end towards the valve.

If there is water flow from the brine port, then the issue is within the brine line or brine pickup assembly within the brine tank.

As the brine tank had been overfilled, did the safety float drop down to open the safety valve after the brine tank level lowered? The safety float closes a valve to prevent additional flow into the brine tank when the brine level is too high. Perhaps the valve is stuck closed.

http://www.flecksystems.com/pdf/5600SXT-Downflow-Service-Manual.pdf

Is there much debris in your brine tank? If so, you may want to clean the brine tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....good-after-salt-clog.67056/page-2#post-498812 was your previous thread.

What is the nature of the bad taste? Iron?

Pour 3 gallons of water into the brine tank. Let it sit for 2 or 3 hours, and force a regeneration. Does the brine suck out again? Does the water get better? Part of the thinking is to see if the brine still gets drawn out.

Bannerman covered various troubleshooting. Let's hope that gets things figured out.

 

[kingrocks]

If you loosen the brine line at the control valve, manually advance the controller to Brine Fill to see if water will flow from the connection port. If there is little water being discharged from that port, then the source of the issue is internal to the controller. Start with removal and cleaning of the injector screen and 2 pc injector as well as the BLFC button. Note which orientation the button was installed so as to return it in the correct direction. The inner hole is tapered and must be installed in the correct direction with the narrow end towards the valve.

If there is water flow from the brine port, then the issue is within the brine line or brine pickup assembly within the brine tank.

As the brine tank had been overfilled, did the safety float drop down to open the safety valve after the brine tank level lowered? The safety float closes a valve to prevent additional flow into the brine tank when the brine level is too high. Perhaps the valve is stuck closed.

http://www.flecksystems.com/pdf/5600SXT-Downflow-Service-Manual.pdf

Is there much debris in your brine tank? If so, you may want to clean the brine tank.

There is no debris in brine tanlK

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....good-after-salt-clog.67056/page-2#post-498812 was your previous thread.

What is the nature of the bad taste? Iron?

Pour 3 gallons of water into the brine tank. Let it sit for 2 or 3 hours, and force a regeneration. Does the brine suck out again? Does the water get better? Part of the thinking is to see if the brine still gets drawn out.

Bannerman covered various troubleshooting. Let's hope that gets things figured out.

brine is sucking for sure. I had water sitting last night before regeneration and it was totally empty today morning. Brine refill is not working. Last weeks ago, it was totally opposite. BD was not sucking and BR was adding more water.

 

[Bannerman]

There is no debris in brine tanlK

As you mentioned cleaning the air check valve, this then seemed to imply debris had created a problem.

Since you would have needed to remove the brine pickup assembly to clean the air check valve, check to ensure the safety float is situated correctly within the brine tank riser tube. If the float is in contact with the tube, it may be prevented from lowering thereby keeping the safety fill valve in the closed position.

 

[Reach4]

And while you have the DLFC out for cleaning and inspection, I would see if I can blow air into the brine tubing toward the brine tank with your mouth.

 

[kingrocks]

I have loosen the brine line at the control valve, manually advance the controller to Brine Fill and water is flowing perfectly for 5 minutes from the connection port. But I don't see any brine water above. Do I need to increase the BF from 5 to 10 minutes?

 

[Reach4]

I have loosen the brine line at the control valve, manually advance the controller to Brine Fill and water is flowing perfectly for 5 minutes from the connection port. But I don't see any brine water above. Do I need to increase the BF from 5 to 10 minutes?

I think you are saying that the water goes into the brine tank, but the level of the water stays under the salt. Is that what you are saying? That is normal if you have much salt in the brine tank.

In many cases there is a tube in the brine tank that you can look down into and see the water level.

With your 1.25 cubic ft of resin, if you have a 0.5 GPM, 5 minutes would be the right time to use 6 pounds of salt per cubic ft of resin (2.5 gallons).

This bad taste... have you heard anybody use words to describe the bad taste? If so, what were those words?

Did you get a lab water test for your raw water?

 

[kingrocks]

Hi Reach4, the water went into the brine tank during BF mode. Yes, the level of the water is under the salt and it is completely down below the salt.The water is under the salt. Earlier it used to be slightly above the salt. But not sure what changed. But it consumed 1 full bag(40lbs of salt) in 2 weeks almost. Earlier I used to get 1 bag for 2-3 months. The bad taste Iam talking is the water doesn't sweet. I didn't give the water for testing. When taking bath with soap, it is not slippery anymore.

During the BF, I holded the brine line and the water was continuously flowing into the brine tank.

 

[Reach4]

You want to get a lab test on your incoming water. See what the iron, manganese and other things are in the water. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ . If you have a lot iron or manganese, it would be best to have a backwashing filter before the softener. The softener can handle some iron, but the softener would need extra care.

You also want to get a Hach 5-B hardness test. You want to be able re-check the hardness of the incoming water again to see if it changes. And you want to check the hardness of the softened water. That will let you measure the effectiveness of the softener and to check to see if you need to adjust the softener to use more salt for each regeneration.

As to using 18 pounds of salt per week per week, you expect to use 7.5 pounds for each regeneration. Could it be that you are using more water now? The display on the softener shows gallons of softened water remaining before regeneration, alternating with the time. You could watch that number to get an idea of your water consumption as measured by the controller.

 

[kingrocks]

You want to get a lab test on your incoming water. See what the iron, manganese and other things are in the water. I like kit 90 from http://www.karlabs.com/watertestkit/ . If you have a lot iron or manganese, it would be best to have a backwashing filter before the softener. The softener can handle some iron, but the softener would need extra care.

You also want to get a Hach 5-B hardness test. You want to be able re-check the hardness of the incoming water again to see if it changes. And you want to check the hardness of the softened water. That will let you measure the effectiveness of the softener and to check to see if you need to adjust the softener to use more salt for each regeneration.

As to using 18 pounds of salt per week per week, you expect to use 7.5 pounds for each regeneration. Could it be that you are using more water now? The display on the softener shows gallons of softened water remaining before regeneration, alternating with the time. You could watch that number to get an idea of your water consumption as measured by the controller.

Reach4,
But what about the brine water completely below the salt level? Any suggestions?

 

[Reach4]

Reach4,
But what about the brine water completely below the salt level? Any suggestions?

The majority of people put enough salt in the brine that the water is almost always below the top salt. I tilt my salt level to let me see some water, but that is just because I like to keep an eye on it, and I don't have a cylinder in my tank that lets me look down and see the water. I should get a better system, but the old one still works. You don't want the water level to be higher than all of the salt, because there is the possibility of stratification. It is fine to top that brine tank up with 5 bags all at once. You could set a reminder to check the tank every couple months. Bottom line, don't worry about that.

The test I suggested does not test for tannins. See if this matches what you observe: http://www.culligan.com/home/solution-center/resources/problem-water-series-tannins-in-water http://www.atsenvironmental.com/residential/water/contaminants/list/tannins

http://www.atsenvironmental.com/residential/water/contaminants/list/tannins

NTL Labs offers a tannin test. http://watercheck.com/productpages/Tannins.html Their regular Well Check water test is more expensive than kit 90, and with their overnight shipping requirements may measure some things better. However their regular test does not test for tannins either. I think the yellow water is the give away, and that is free to see. Picture old leaves steeping in water.

If your water is from a lake or a shallow well, the water may be much more variable than it would be from a deep well.

 

[kingrocks]

My water is from city.

 

[kingrocks]

My water is from city.

The majority of people put enough salt in the brine that the water is almost always below the top salt. I tilt my salt level to let me see some water, but that is just because I like to keep an eye on it, and I don't have a cylinder in my tank that lets me look down and see the water. I should get a better system, but the old one still works. You don't want the water level to be higher than all of the salt, because there is the possibility of stratification.

The test I suggested does not test for tannins. See if this matches what you observe: http://www.culligan.com/home/solution-center/resources/problem-water-series-tannins-in-water http://www.atsenvironmental.com/residential/water/contaminants/list/tannins

http://www.atsenvironmental.com/residential/water/contaminants/list/tannins

NTL Labs offers a tannin test. http://watercheck.com/productpages/Tannins.html Their regular Well Check water test is more expensive than kit 90, and with their overnight shipping requirements may measure some things better. However their regular test does not test for tannins either.

If your water is from a lake or a shallow well, the water may be more variable than it would be from a deep well.

My water is from city. I am just wondering , it still needs some water for crystals cleaning for next regenration right? Mine is dry like desert. But under the salt compartment there is water.

 

[Reach4]

My water is from city.

In that case, try tasting the incoming city water. Maybe you want to be drinking that, or maybe you want to be drinking bottled water, or get an RO system.

Do get the Hach 5B to test softness before and after the softener.

I am just wondering , it still needs some water for crystals cleaning for next regenration right? Mine is dry like desert. But under the salt compartment there is water.

Perfectly normal for the majority of the salt in the brine tank to be dry. Just so the water at the bottom has salt.

 

[Bannerman]

According to your initial post in October 2015, your water source is municipal and the water's hardness is 11 gpg. Do you have a Hach 5b test kit or how was the actual amount of hardness established?

Your post also indicated that the softener's BLFC is 0.5 gpm for your 1.25 cuft softener. As such, BF = 5 minutes X 0.5 gpm = 2.5 gallons of water that should enter the brine tank which will dissolve 7.5 lbs of salt each regeneration cycle. That 7.5 pounds is the appropriate amount to regenerate 25,000 grains of capacity, so the softener's 'C' setting should be 25.

Your initial post indicates 5000 gallons is usual consumption per billing cycle (ie: monthly) for 4 persons. With a 25,000 grain capacity setting, at 11 gpg hardness, your softener would then deliver approx 2,270 gallons max per regeneration cycle, so more than 2 regens to deliver 5000 gallons. At 7.5 lbs salt per regen cycle, you should be using no more than 22.5 lbs per month in normal operation. As you stated the brine tank had been recently overfilled, that would consume considerably more salt. Each gallon entering the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs of salt.

If there is a quantity of salt in the brine tank, the 2.5 gallons will not be visible until the salt level drops fairly low. As long as that water is making contact with the lower salt, salt will be dissolved to create the amount of brine programmed . You should be able to verify water is in the tank by looking down inside the riser tube within the brine tank.

To verify if your softener is properly working or not, it is best to test your home's water with a Hach 5b test. If you don't have one, buy one.

 

[JRC3]

Here's an example of what 2.5 gallons look like. (Attached pics)

My brine tank is 34", the water is roughly 8.5" deep and my current salt level is 2" below that. Basically the water level is 25.5" down from the top rim of the 34" tank and the salt is 2" below that. It is set to fill with 7.5 gallons of water. If you look in the second pic you will see a little black line. This was where the water level was before the last regen when it was set at 5 gallons/15 ponds.

Look at my riser tube, the water is 1' above the tank level. When it was set at 5 gallons/15 pounds the level in the tube stayed about 2" above. Not sure why but my point is the riser tube may not fully represent the water level in the actual tank. Also the tank is ran pretty much completely dry of water when the air gap does it's job.
1.0 cuft/32k
Capacity set 20K
10 min draw/BLFC: .250
14x32 brine tank.

HTH

 

[Bannerman]

Not sure what you're asking.

Your 0.25 BLFC X 10 minute Fill, means the water programmed to enter the brine tank is 2.5 gallons which will dissolve 7.5 lbs of salt. For 20,000 grains programmed capacity in a 1 cuft softener, should require only 6 lbs of salt. If additional brine is produced than can be used for regeneration, that excess brine is wasted as it will be flushed to drain.

Your salt level is quite low. The Brine tank should not drop that low to ensure there is enough salt available.

 

[Reach4]

Look at my riser tube, the water is 1' above the tank level. When it was set at 5 gallons/15 pounds the level in the tube stayed about 2" above. Not sure why but my point is the riser tube may not fully represent the water level in the actual tank.

To see the water level inside the tube, I think you will have to remove the cap/lid on the tube. I think the darkening on the side of the tank does not represent the level of the water.

If you want to keep an eye on the water level outside of the tube, tilt your salt fill so that some salt is always above the water level. Few people do that; I usually do. The regular thing is to fill the salt well above the water level so that you don't have to add salt often. Monitoring the level is useful initially, I think, so that you can see that things are working.

 

[JRC3]

^
^^
I'm new to the softener game and am playing with things a bit. I meant to set it at 7.5 lbs and will probably go down to 6 in the future. I just set this up in June and was filling 5G/15lbs as directed. I initially filled the tank with 4 bags/160lbs of salt and you can see what is left in just 3-3.5 months. By my math I've used about 112lbs, half would be much better. I didn't even live in the house until a month ago and the 14 day override is the only reason it has ever regenerated.

When I noticed my current low salt level I did force the last regen way early so I could see the difference in tank water level. I don't plan on letting it get low again it, just used way more than I thought is should've been even with me only starting with 160lbs. Either way it's proof to me that directed settings are just wasteful. Salt is cheap enough but my thoughts are more about the senseless waste.

May main reason for posting was to show what 2.5 gallons looked like in the brine tank and about the riser tube..