New construction soaker tub slow fill rate

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RIVER ROAD

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Probably takes 30 mins to fill tub to normal level and by then, water is cool. Delta Laharra Roman faucet is rated to 19gpm but getting a max of 5. plumber used 1/2 PEX and according to delta, should be ok... Delta sent replacement valves but doubt that's the issue. There is a tempering valve under lavatory that I may remove but doubt that's the issue either.. please help! Have expensive tub we cant use...thanks!

lahara-roman-tub-flow.jpg
 
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Terry

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tub_auclair_01.jpg




tub_auclair_02.jpg


This is 1/2" PEX. Are you sure it's connected with PEX and not some 3/8" stainless supplies?

The valve does 15 GPM at 40 PSI
 
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Terry

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What temperature do you have on the hot side? You can run that at 120 and meet code.
In the baking department you can pick up a thermometer.
 

RIVER ROAD

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125 on hot side. Is the 1/2 pex undersized? What else could be limiting flow?
 

Dana

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125 on hot side. Is the 1/2 pex undersized? What else could be limiting flow?


Tankless water heater?

Low water pressure? (Faucets and showerheads are are flow-rated at 80 psi.)
 

RIVER ROAD

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Don't know how long exactly. Whole house is 1/2 pex. I have 600' of 1" pex from meter to house. Could the valves be undersized.
 

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Any other ideas? 50 gal tank for master bath only. Exterior faucets seem to have good pressure and flow.

The cold water fills 5 gal bucket in 1 minute and the hot and cold together full blast also fill bucket in 1 min
 

Dana

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And the static water pressure is... ???

5 gpm x 30 minutes of fill time = 150 gallons , what's with the 50 gallon heater?
 

Reach4

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Probably takes 30 mins to fill tub to normal level and by then, water is cool. Delta Laharra Roman faucet is rated to 19gpm but getting a max of 5. plumber used 1/2 PEX and according to delta, should be ok...
https://www.pexuniverse.com/pex-tubing-technical-specs says to expect about 38 PSI drop in 100 ft equivalent for 1/2 inch PEX at 6 gpm. What is your water pressure?

There is a tempering valve under lavatory that I may remove but doubt that's the issue either..

I would think that may be contributing significantly if the water to the tub goes thru that.
 

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It's only a 66" jetted tub. 5 gal per minute is a mixture of hot and cold. 50 gal. tank should be sufficient for this sized tub. What is routine for checking water pressure?
 

Dana

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The tempering valve isn't the problem if even when running cold-only it's delivering just 5 gpm.
 

Dana

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It's only a 66" jetted tub. 5 gal per minute is a mixture of hot and cold. 50 gal. tank should be sufficient for this sized tub. What is routine for checking water pressure?

A typical soaker tub is ~70-90 gallons to bathing depth, not 150. It can't be taking 30 minutes to fill that tub if the fill rate is 5 gpm (unless somebody has reinvented the way arithmetic works, which I suppose is possible. :) )
 

RIVER ROAD

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27 mins to fill to normal level was prior to adjusting the tempering valve. Now it's a bit better. I haven't checked it yet but I would guess the hot water by itself is maybe 3 gal per minute
 

Dana

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27 min x 5 gpm = 135 gallons.

With a 50 gallon water heater you only get 35-40 gallons out of it at something like the storage temperature, after which it's temperature drops rapidly.

With incoming cold water at 55F (wintertime) and a 50 gallon water heater set to 40 F, mixing the 40 gallons of 140F water with 95F of 55F water to fill the 135 gallon tub becomes a tepid 80F.

If your tub is REALLY that big you need at LEAST an 80 gallon water heater, and a storage temp well north of 150. With an 80 gallon tank at 160F you'll get about 65 gallons of water that hot out of the tank, mixed with 70 gallons of cold would yield 105F- a warm but not particularly hot bathing temp.
 

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With the tempering valve set incorrectly, there was no cold water mixing at the faucet, only hot side. My main issue is lack of flow, not quantity of water. Sounds Contradictory but that's how I see you. Thanks for any advice and help!
 

RIVER ROAD

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Just bought a pressure gauge from Lowe's. What is an acceptable pressure
 

Dana

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With the tempering valve set incorrectly, there was no cold water mixing at the faucet, only hot side. My main issue is lack of flow, not quantity of water. Sounds Contradictory but that's how I see you. Thanks for any advice and help!

I think you have both problems, not just one. Not enough flow, and not enough stored heat in the tank.

Bucket-test the total flow rate again, and time the fill to get a realistic handle on the total volume. There are only so many stored BTUs in a 50 gallon tank, and even with a special controls to raise the storage temperature to 180F, filling a 125 gallon tub with 40 gallons of 180F water and 85 gallons of 55F cold would still end up at a warmish 95F, even if it filled in 2.7 minutes instead of 27.

Play around with this online mixing calculator a bit, you'll see what I mean. A typical spa temp is 104-105F, so that's your target.

Don't count on getting more than 4/5 of the tank volume out at the storage temperature- it'll often only be 2/3. In most of GA the average incoming water temp over the course of a year will be in the low to mid 60sF, but if you're on a city water main it'll be at least 10F colder during the coldest weeks of winter, which is why I'm using 55F. Run a cold tap for a full 3 minutes and take the temperature of the water to get a handle on what your actual early January incoming water temp is. It's usually a bit colder by early February, but not another 10F colder.

Most private well systems run between 30-50 psi, which would deliver about half the rated flow of showerhead specified at 80 psi. Terry's first response indicates that the faucet should be good for 15gpm at 40 psi.

A static pressure of 80psi or higher would be the starting point, then you'd have to calculate the pressure drops with flow across the PEX and look up the specs on the tempering valve. (A 3/4" thermostatic mixing valve might be a better option than a half-inch tempering valve if that turns out to be the bottleneck.)

A crude rule of thumb, for half-inch PEX , for every gpm of flow, for every 10' of length there is about a 1 psi drop (but it's not really that linear) If the goal is 10 gpm through the hot side mixing with 5 gpm of cold, and there is 50' of PEX between the tank and tempering valve it's losing about 5 x 15= 75 psi. The faucet needs to see 40 psi to deliver the 15gpm total which means you'd need a static pressure of about 110 psi (which is on the high side.) If there is only 30' of pipe, the pressure drop would be roughly 45 psi at 10gpm, and you'd need a static pressure of 45 +40= 85 psi. All pipe lengths have to include the "equivalent lengths" of all ells & tees & valves, etc, which add on to the straight lengths. If the cold feed to the water heater is also half-inch pex, that has to be factored in too.

So if your static pressure is only 50 psi, you're never going to get to 15 gpm unless the pipe lengths (including the cold feed to the water heater) are very short.
 
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