Kohler Cimarron toilet review, Owner comments and pictures

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Reader Review, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. drewc

    drewc New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Cimarron, the sequel

    Has anyone here used the new, Class Six version of the Cimarron?

    According to this Consumer Reports blog entry, the Class Six flush system can be configured as a HET (1.28 gpf) or for 1.6-gpf flushes. The wording in the blog entry suggests that it's a dual-flush design, but I don't believe that's the case; the Kohler web site doesn't say anything about dual-flush in the features for this model.

    More interesting is the claim of better bowl cleaning:

    That sounds good, but is it true? I won't be the first to test it. We've already replaced all the toilets in our house.
     
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I believe the Tulalip Casino in Marysville has the Kohler Class 6 in the rooms.
    The rinse is now 360 in the bowl, no longer missing the back.
    Still very little rinse, and what I considered a loud flush.
    But the rooms there are very nice.
    The shower has three shower heads, nice.

    The trapway design has bends that are too tight.
    In real use, they will clog more then a toilet with a good trapway.

    It is not a dual flush. I don't know why they would think that.

    The last time I went there, the Cimarron was leaking and refilling all night long.
    It needed a replacement flapper after one year of use.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2009
  3. Crapper

    Crapper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    We had the original 1992-1993 Kohler Wellworth Lite No-Flush toilets when we built our house (what was I thinking! I had a duplex and had used the Wellworth in those 2 bathrooms but that pre-1992 standards). Anyways these would plug 9 out 10 times when you took a dump. Ended up keeping a toilet plunger next to each toilet. I complained to the local dealer and they sent out a Kohler rep who insisted everything was "fine". I invited him over for dinner so that he could take a test drive himself but he refused. I wonder why? I wrote a letter to Kohler directly and they finally admitted that "Yes, they do have a slight problem" and that gave me the OK to change out the toilet bowls that have a larger opening. So I spent the better part of day taking apart 3 toilets and putting them back together again. Now they only plug 8 out of 10 times! They used to plug so bad that on 3 occassions I had to remove the toilets and use a coat hanger to unclog it from the bottom!! Gross !!! After 15 years of this crap my wife and I decided to upgade to the Cimarron (kept with Kohler because of the Biscuit color and we had sinks that matched). The Cimarron flushes well but it does have a tendency to leave "skid marks". We traded the plungers for brushes! The whole flushing process takes about 2 seconds. It got plugged once and they don't work very well with a plunger due to the way the drain is designed (the plunger cannot cover the opening). Ended up using a plastic coated coat hanger to retrieve the toilet paper that was causing the problem.

    I will never ever consider a Kohler product again! Stay clear of this one.
     
  4. dlroseberry

    dlroseberry New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    cautiously optimistic

    I installed a cimarron two days ago. It is already apparent that it's not going to plug as often as our circa 1994 Crane. But the complex shape of the bowl may make it harder to get a seal if plunging is necessary; I don't know yet on that. The bowl is designed to hold very little water and still has a decent water surface. To do this the slope of the bowl is pretty shallow below the waterline. Bowl cleaning may be a problem but we haven't seen it and frankly, plugging is is the more serious issue as far as we're concerned.

    I suspect there will always be tradeoffs with low flow toilets because larger traps take more water, more water in the bowl keeps it cleaner, better rinsing takes more water or more water velocity. More water velocity is noisier, complicated and expensive. But on the whole, I think the large diameter valve between the tank and the bowl is the best way to go.
     
  5. pfs53

    pfs53 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Clogged in less than 2 weeks

    I am remodeling both bathrooms and let the contractor recommend which stool to install. My only caveat to him was that it must work (that plus I requested the comfort height and the elongated bowl). He and the gentleman who installed it assured me that this particular toilet works very well.
    Well, it's less than 2 weeks since the first one was installed and it has now clogged up. I went out to Bed, Bath and Beyond and purchased the best plunger they had in stock, but it will not work with these toilets. Because of the shape of the bowl, I cannot get a good seal. Consequently, instead of the air being forced down the drain and clearing the clog, it is forced back into the bowl splashing water out of the bowl - and on me.
    I asked my contractor what plunger works with this toilet and he had no idea. He claims it had never come up. He seems like an honest enough guy, but I'm wishing now I had done my own homework. I'm afraid I'm now stuck with a couple of toilets that clog easily.
     
  6. Probedude

    Probedude New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Location:
    CA
    For what it's worth, when looking at my friend's Cimarron, the bowl shape is darn near identical to the Toto Drake - rectangular'ish.

    What TP are you using when you're clogging your Cimarron? We had some Charmin Ultra soft and that was clogging even our Toto Eco Drake. Put that TP in, do your duty on top of it, then add more TP and you've now clogged a Drake, and I'm sure a Cimarron too.

    Grading the best toilets, the ones that work!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2009
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I had the Cimarron and the Drake in the same bathroom.
    The Cimarron does clog much easier then the Drake.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  8. Jetta Whirlpool Baths

    Jetta Whirlpool Baths New Member

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    Apr 17, 2009
    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Kohler Cimmaron Discontinued?

    Just quoted a customer a Kohler Elongated Comfort Height Cimmaron. (K-3496-33) And when I called my supplier for a shipping quote, she told me that that model has been discontinued and is requiring an upgrade to the 3489, one piece with class 6 flush, quite the upgrade.

    Can anyone confirm?
     
  9. SewerRatz

    SewerRatz Illinois Licensed Plumber

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Occupation:
    Chicago Illinois Licensed Plumber
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I can confirm Monday morning for you. I sold one about three weeks ago, but in this industry anything can happen in three weeks.
     
  10. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Kohler constantly reengineers it's stuff...
    Part of the reason why Kohler parts are such a PITA to get...:mad:

    I hate Kohler!

    [​IMG]

    Link about the chain tangling on the new canister flush valve
    __________________
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2009
  11. gusherb94

    gusherb94 Member

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    Jan 13, 2009
    Occupation:
    Everything
    Location:
    chicago/nw IN
    There wild contraptions certainly are fun and challenging to study though!:eek::p:D
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Occupation:
    Service Plumber
    Location:
    Connecticut
  13. gusherb94

    gusherb94 Member

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    Everything
    Location:
    chicago/nw IN
    Campbells soup company was low on sales and Kohler was feeling bad so they bought a million cans of soup from them, but then Kohler didn't know what to do with all those cans of soup, so then Kohler fed the soup to the wild dogs in back of the factory and made flush valves out of the soup cans.:eek::D:mad:
     
  14. Jetta Whirlpool Baths

    Jetta Whirlpool Baths New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    OK did a little research from yet another supplier and have found:

    1.) Kohler is upgrading the Cimmaron to the Class 6 flushing system.
    2.) In this upgrade, they are discontinuing a majority of their fashion and full line colors. (killing the only reason ever to buy a Kohler IMHO.)
    3.) This requires you to upgrade to the 1 piece Cimmaron, which for whatever reason hasnt been upgraded/discontinued or move over to a completely different toilet that does have Mexican Sand as a color option, like the Kelston? Which is still more money I believe.

    Nice to see that Kohler still lists discontinued models on its website as if you can still order them like usual... *sigh*
     
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
  16. 12inch_rough_in

    12inch_rough_in New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Occupation:
    Sales Specialist
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    KOHLER-Cimerron toilets

    Hey just read many of the comments of people having problems with various problems from cleaning action to what sounded like a bad installation.

    The latest KOHLER-Cimerron Version is the only class 6 toilet available on the market today. For just about the same price as American Standard you get a far Superior product with KOHLER.

    A Cimerron toilet has a 3 1/2 flapper opening, boasting the largest of any manufacturer to date! Kohler when they introduced this line stated " You can flush 100 feet of toilet paper in on flush!" Now I would never try that myself, that's one hell of a claim, and Kohler was was the first to say it. (Geez 40 golf balls in a single flush, claimed by others just makes me feel "Ahh Yea Right, let me test that one out when I paid $35.00 for the new Spaldings golf balls I just bought":eek: (OK maybe the kid in my house might).

    American Standard months later came out with the "CADET 3" meaning they had had the toilet that could flush 150 feet of toilet paper with a flapper opening of just 3 inches.

    As of June 17, 2009 I am to attend a Kohler sponsored class on the new or what ever I can learn about products all through where I work paying me to do so.
    I'll will dutifully share what I learn with you all!
     
  17. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The problem with the Cimarron is mainly the trapway, which has not improved since it was introduced.

    Class 4,5,6,7 are marketing terms now.

    The numbers mean nothing.

    In real use, a Toto class 4 is equal to a Eljer class 7
    A Eljer class 7 and Toto 4 are better then the Kohler class 5 and 6

    All of these use a 3" or larger flush valve.
    But you still have to look at the trapway. That is where the clogging occurs.
    The Cimarron trapway has too tight of bends where it leaves the bowl.
    It does clog more then other trapways out there in real use.

    If you look at quality of construction, and consistent rinse, then the Toto class 4 comes out at the top.
    Toto doesn't keep changing the number, they are the ones being chased.
    4 was meant to be a classification for commercial products.
    That's as high as you get.

    The other manufacturers can come out with
    Newer, bigger, surreal, octofying, suptregasping, amectacking, unreally, wackanobby,
    it doesn't change a thing.

    My personal experience with Class 6 Cimarron, is that the rinse is now 360, but still not very good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2009
  18. 43sbest

    43sbest New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Class 6 Cimarron

    I recently remodeled our master bath and had a choice of the Kohler Cimarron (class 6),Toto Drake or several other toilets at no cost. A couple of years ago the company I work for added to our office and installed Drake's in the two new restrooms. For my remodel I chose the Cimarron comfort height and also replaced the toilet in our other bath with the Cimarron. To me the class 6 Cimarron is not only a better operating toilet but it is also more appealing than the Drake. The soft close seats are the cats meow and the entire seat can be removed in about 5 seconds which makes cleaning around the top of the bowl so much easier.

    Just my opinion of course.
     
  19. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Kohler Cimarron One-Piece, Class Six

    [​IMG]
    The trapway on the Cimarron lays flat, hopefully waste makes it through the tight bend for the flange.
    This is where I find the most plugs with the bowl.
    Not a good design.

    [​IMG]
    Looking inside the Kohler Cimarron one-piece tank.
    The toilet was installed one year ago.
    The flapper is leaking on this one and refilling about every two minutes.

    [​IMG]
    The toilet looks nice on the tile floor.

    [​IMG]
    It could use better bowl wash.
    Much of the bowl never gets touched by water from the under rim jets.
     
  20. Reader Review

    Reader Review Comments by readers

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Location:
    Emails and phone calls sent in by readers
    am a professional handyman and a former building engineer. I install between 8 to 12 toilets per year and repair/rebuild
    another 20. I installed my first, and last, Kohler Cimmaron four weeks ago. A single, middle-aged woman has had the
    toilet clog five times since installation. A normal, even large plunger will not seal so that option is out. I have had to
    auger the unit four times. I even removed and re-set the toilet, just to make sure nothing had clogged the line. Today
    I removed the unit and returned it to Home Depot. I picked up a Toto Drake from the local plumbing supply. I need to
    see how this performs. My son-in-law is a plumber and has had numerous problems with newer Kohler toilets clogging.
    I've had some luck with American Standard Champion 4 but not with the Cadet 3.

    C Schertizing
     
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