220v to 110v

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by Stat Man, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. jbfan74

    jbfan74 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    DO NOT CLIP ANY LEADS!
    Pigtail the correct size wire to the current wires.
    Do this on both ends to make sure the wires fit the brakers and the receptacles.
    Use a double pole 15 amp breaker or use breaker ties.
  2. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    If its solid wire he would likely have to do that, or it might fit into certain breakers as-is.

    Seems like he should have 2 seperate breakers as he is creating 2 seperate 120v circuits.
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,261
    Location:
    New England
    A shared neutral circuit should have both legs turned off at the same time, thus the double breaker or the ties between them. Then, if either leg has an overload, it shuts both off. Possibly an annoyance. The way around that is a subpanel.
  4. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I suppose that eliminates any chance of some stray juice in the neutral, but a very small chance it is. Still less annoyance than adding a subpanel. Use the double breaker.
  5. sbrn33

    sbrn33 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Fremont, NE
    Ballvalve, You should not be giving any information on any electrical install as it is apparent that you have no electrical experience as most everything you have stated is incorrect or just down right dangerous.
    OP If that existing cable is a 4 wire you could split it up and install that proper over current protection in the existing panel. No real need to install a new panel anywhere if all you need is 2 circuits.
  6. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Sounds like you didnt read the whole thread and other electricians opinions. May as well insult them by name also to be really obtuse.

    your last paragraph is what I said. What is "OP"?

    Maybe you missed page one.
  7. arfeller

    arfeller New Member

    Messages:
    77
    Location:
    Port Angeles, WA
    "OP" usually refers to the "Original Poster" of the thread.
  8. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    sbrn, still waiting on your apology! Thanks in advance.
  9. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,555
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I can’t help how many illegal installations you have seen or how much moisture is on the outside panel I am sure that you understand that it is still illegal to install a panel in a closet and also sure that if you are truly an electrician you know the difference between the panels approved for outside installations and an inside panel.

    I truly hope that you didn’t say this and use the term “electrician†to describe yourself.

    Just what are you talking about here, “stray juice�

    I agree with this post in its entirety

    Okay here it is…â€I’m sorry that you think you are an electricianâ
  10. sbrn33

    sbrn33 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Fremont, NE
    Rock pretty much said it all. My only apology will be that I didn't get back to the forum faster and Rock beat me to it.
    Ballvalve, I will say it again, by reading your post you have proven to me(and apparently some others) that you are not an electrician. You may be a great plumber(going by your name) but that doesn't make you a good electrician. It's OK, I just don't want you giving advice that has no sound reasoning, code basis or workmanship issues.
  11. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    OK, just so I have this right. It is ok to split the circuit at the main panel and use a shared common for the two new circuits, correct?
  12. sbrn33

    sbrn33 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Fremont, NE
    Yes, make sure there is a ground wire and protect it with the right size breaker. Install a junction box somewhere accessible and run new 12-2 to where you need your new circuits. Protect with a 2 pole 20 amp breaker.
  13. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    OK, thanks!!
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,283
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I think Ballvalve installs pumps, I changed the title on his listing to that.
    Terry
  15. jbfan74

    jbfan74 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    131
    Location:
    Newnan, GA
    I think somewhere the OP listed the tub as needing 15 amps max, so if that is the case, you can only use a 2 pole 15 amp breaker.
  16. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Gee thanks Terry, but just call me a general engineering contractor. That will cover all of my other licenses.

    Why would you agree with Sbrnsomething when my advice matched his exactly? And several other posters backed it up?

    SBrn looks like he skipped reading classes in grade school, and rock of the barne just likes to argue, after he agreed with me in a previous post.

    You might notice that it was me that told the guy he ALREADY had 2 circuits in his toilet, while the others didnt have a clue.

    Clip a lead in a stranded 6 or 8 g wire? BFD argumentive robot boys.

    It is now on a 15 amp breaker - duh. And dont reply back its a code issue. They are the biggest dopes of all.

    Lets hear you master electricians explain the safety problem in that.

    C'mon, make something up.

    Want to make it safe IN the panel? Do a J- box outside the panel, make your connection to the big wire there, and bring in 14 gauge wire to the 15 amp breakers. Now handyman Billy Bob cannot re-hook the 50 amp breaker to the big wires and barbque the guy in his tub.

    And about "outdoor" panels. Ever see a "outdoor" breaker? Ever see a different bus bar in the outside panel? No

    OUtdoor panels are "rainproof" by BOX DESIGN - dont rain in my bath closet, I dont know about yours.

    Funny how all you great electricians out there never take the time to put no-corrode paste on wire connections in outdoor boxes, which is a REAL safety issue. You can have a copper wire on an aluminum lug with a steel screw. Take any physics classes? Now there is something to worry about, not a clipped lead out of 4 or 5.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2010
  17. sbrn33

    sbrn33 Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    Fremont, NE
    You should stop talking as the hole you are digging is getting deeper and deeper.
  18. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    I think a lot of "electricians" deserve to be in that hole.
  19. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,555
    Location:
    North Carolina
    One of the funniest things I have ever seen or read was someone with little or no knowledge of something standing on a podium shouting out wrong information.

    Check out some of the following;

    This section of the NEC clearly states that any piece of electrical equipment MUST be installed according to any instructions included in the listing and labeling of the piece of equipment.
    Many manufacturers of terminals will instruct the installer to not use any type of inhibitors. Those who recommend the use of inhibitors include the inhibitor in the terminal.

    As one can easily see no dissimilar metals can be used together unless the fitting is approved for the metals.
    Also the use of inhibitors or antioxidant compounds are forbidden unless suitable for the installation and none of these are suitable unless the manufacturer calls for them.

    Now if this isn’t enough the use of the antioxidant must be used according to the recommendations of the manufacturer and I haven’t seen the proper use of the antioxidant in more than twenty years. It also seems to be the ones calling or claiming that it should be used for every installation that has no clue on the proper use of the antioxidant.

    Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law.
  20. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    [QUOTE=sbrn33;279510]Yes, make sure there is a ground wire and protect it with the right size breaker. Install a junction box somewhere accessible and run new 12-2 to where you need your new circuits. Protect with a 2 pole 20 amp breaker.[/QUOTE]

    So that proves my original point that you didnt read the entire thread.

    And Marne Rock, I would stop being a slave to obtuse code written by engineers that never were in the field.

    Got a pile of breakers and older boxes with bizzare combinations of metals. Rusted, corroded in wires and screws. But hey! Your odd reading of that ridiculous piece of nonsensical code should be followed blindly. I would opt for the safe side, and I wonder how no corrode, anti seize paste can be a safety issue.

    What do the dopes at NEC have to say about ground rod connectors? Some are aluminum, on rebar, with steel screws. Some are plated brass with steel fittings of the lowest quality. Some are aluminum on a galvanized rod. Out in the rain. Got physics? Or better, got an NEC enforcement agency watching every manufacturer from China to India to Detroit for their metallic choices? They only respond after someone gets toasted, if then.

    Test the resistance after 10 years on the ones without anti seize or no corrode paste. That is IF you can get a connection through the rusted rotten clamp thats ready to fall apart. A little paste might save a life. If NEC had a clue you would paste it, ball it with putty [not play dough] and shrink tube it. THATS safety at work.

    The telephone company NEC reading imbecile installed a steel ground clamp on my 1" copper main water line, which is not in the earth anyway. Pipe is almost rotted through, and the clamp too. Bet he had a code book in the car, next to his bud light.

    "Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law. "

    Germany once adopted a law that told the Jews to assemble and starve and then march to the gas.

    Try to buy a gun in England or most of Europe. Ready for 2 years of paperwork?

    North Korea has laws saying you must venerate the faultless leader and kiss his photo each morning.

    But thats the LAW, laws must be followed.

    And by the way, I apologise for asking anyone to apologise. I notice when I ask my wife that, dishes usually start flying no matter how wrong she might be.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
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