220v to 110v

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by Stat Man, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,529
    Location:
    North Carolina
    This goes to prove my statement
    for it is not engineers that write the NEC but instead it is people just like you and me that write the NEC. In the back of ever NEC book is a proposal that even you can fill out in order to have some section of the NEC changed. Over the years I have written many that was accepted into the next code cycle

    Are you asking two questions here or are you making a statement and asking one question?
    Any type of compound used on wires and terminals MUST be approved for the application. Could you see someone using Teflon anti- seize on an electrical installation. The Teflon would act as an insulator and impede the flow of current. All types of “anti-seize†is forbidden from use on electrical connections of any kind as the anti-seize is not a conductor of electrical current.
    If you had one ounce of knowledge of electrical you would know that aluminum is not used in direct contact with earth for any reason. You would also know what a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory was and what their job in the electrical trade was. Ever hear lf such laboratories such as UL, Met ect….?

    Again you show your ignorance with the statement of saving a live with a rusted ground connection. The earth plays no role in your safety when it comes to electrical current flow. A careful read of 250.4 will explain the four reasons we connect to earth and clearing a fault is not one of them.

    YOUR COPPER IS ROTTED AWAY?????? Damn if you ain’t good. You have successfully done something that can’t be done. If the telephone technician bonded to your copper water pipe then the electrical system is required to be bonded to you copper pipe also so therefore the telephone technician did a good job.
    CAUTION---- If you copper water pipes have rotted away you need to hire a plumber before you start having water leaks.

    "Now I might be one of those code nuts but I know that once the NEC is adopted it becomes law. "
    Well I just don’t understand what all these laws have to do with the building codes of America but you are correct that the law is the law and must be adhered to no matter where you are in this world.
    And once again you prove that you have a lot to learn. Any man who has been “happily†married for any amount of time knows that a woman is ALWAYS right and us poor old lonely men are just plain wrong. Men should always apologize to women. Notice the spelling of a-p-o-l-o-g-i-z-e. Do you see there is no “s†in the word. Now go hug your wife and apologize to her and tell her how unworthy you are to have someone so smart looking after you, you will find a more tranquil life after doing this.
  2. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    So you CONFIRM that you would kiss Panyong-dummm-dangs photo and march naked to the gas chamber. You should have lived in Eastern Europe for a decade or two before 1997. They elevated robots to a high status.

    And the NEC [numb-nuts expousing crap] allows you to write in their book? That explains much about their confusion.

    Why not write to them and explain that rusted, useless, non-functioning connections to ground rods are to be accepted. Be sure to use your spell checker.

    And I'll make an exception for you: Still waiting for your a-p-p-o-l-y-g-e-e. Write it when kneeling please.

    Anti sieze and anti corrode elements are found combined in electricians paste. Here is a little reading for you, since you apparantly do not understand c-o-r-r-o-c-e-a-n:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

    And you want me to bond my panel to a corroded zinc clamp on the telephone companies ground wire, all connectd to my ungrounded copper pipe? Better cuddle up with your NEC book.

    And get yourself some deep understanding of this stuff:

    http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html

    Might save a life and a fire if electricians took the time to use it.

    [Good ones already do that]
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
  3. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,529
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Maybe if you would take the time to read some to this propaganda YOU would better understand the physics behind the finding of facts.
    First let’s take a look at your rotted copper pipe and the treason web page you posted. Wait a minute that was the other Wiki that committed treason. In order for galvanic reaction to take place there would need to be certain metals in direct contact with each other such as copper and zinc with an electrical current being imposed on them. Of course this galvanic reaction can take place with an electrolyte in which case we would have a battery.

    This cock and bull story of installing a brass clamp to a copper pipe causing some sort of galvanic reaction is at the very least the funniest thing I have ever heard. If someone does believe this contact is going to somehow cause problems had better remove the mixing valve in their shower immediately.
    With the information you posted from that wiki page I am afraid to take a shower anymore. From now on I will go to the river to bathe because I might get electrocuted in the shower because my mixing valve is brass and it has copper sweated to it.
    In all of my years I have never seen a zinc clamp used in the electrical trade but then again I have not been to all them countries you know the laws of either.
    As to the model railroad stuff you want to put on the conductors again I point out 110.14 of the NEC which clearly states that the use of this junk must be called for by both the wire manufacturer and the terminal manufacturer before it can be used. In the 42 years that I have been doing electrical work I can’t remember a time it was required.

    Of course in all my years of doing electrical work I haven’t gotten as much experience in the use and installation of electrical components as someone who has been doing plumbing would have gotten especially those who have gotten all their experience via the internet.
  4. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    3m and Ideal sell wire nuts with the goop already in them for outside work. Come back after 10 years and the copper is like new. Do the connection without and you are using dikes to cut the nut off.

    At 60 or 100 bucks an hour, I'd say the homeowner deserves it.

    If its a pot-metal box, if you dont use it on the cover plate screws, the chisel is the only method of removal after 1 year

    Copper and brass clamps and connections are fine, but there ARE many flavors of ground clamp connectors, without names and country of origin. I see many zinc/aluminum, and brass PLATED steel clamps. Without a good no-corrode paste they are junk after a few years.

    Plumbers tape for contact to copper, you may notice is copper plated or plastic. Its not for show.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2010
  5. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,529
    Location:
    North Carolina
    this is neither anti-ox or anti-seize but instead it is for the protection against water invasion.

    this is a false statement as I have never had to cut the wire nut off in all the years I have been in the field

    It does my heart good to finally find out why plumbers make so much money. It is because of what they charge per hour

    Never in over forty years had this problem. Is this something you are finding on a daily basis?

    Now you understand why the NEC requires electrical equipment to be listed and approved for the installation. Of course when we start having building engineers doing field work it is no wonder that we have the inclusion of all this unlisted and unapproved stuff being installed.
    After all it was YOU who said that the engineers that has little or no common sense.

    Neither is it for electrical installations.
  6. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Regarding your experience with a steel screw in a cast zinc-aluminum box, and wire nuts outdoors, you must do your work in Kuwait or the Sahara, and commute to humid NC. Actually steel screws in aluminum- zinc boxes would corrode even there from dew.

    An old tool designer/ mentor of mine taught me to use EAR WAX on bolts and nuts when you are in a bind and want the connection to never corrode. Never use Q-tips to clean your ears. Use a small flat screwdriver or tree branch and put it into your wire nuts. [not OSHA approved]

    But ground clamps have no UL tag or NEC oversight, and so all kind of garbage comes in from India and china for the sake of a profit to the peddler.

    Copper corrodes quite nicely if you keep it damp and wind it up in a steel spring. Do a search for statue of liberty repairs, its quite interesting. Copper and steel makes a good battery, and the french Laquered or varnished the steel frame, but wherever it was too thin, everything turned to dust.

    Some old electrical books says electricians used Mobil 29 grease on connections for corrosion protection before anyone made a specific product.

    Even lard or goose grease in a outdoor wire nut would be better than nothing. You can run with that thought! I'll send it to the NEC.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  7. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,529
    Location:
    North Carolina




    Well then explain what this means. I found it in 250.64(F) of the NEC
    I also wonder just what UL Standard 467 is all about, could it be grounding equipment?


    Be sure to do just that. I will be looking for it in the ROPs

    The one thing that I do know for sure is that you have no clue of what you are talking about
  8. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    Steel in zinc aluminum outside MUST corrode unless greased or pasted. Fact of physics.

    Again, if yours do not corrode you must be doing your work in Kuwait.

    Thats a silcone grease in the wire nuts and it prevents corrosion from moisture.

    The old street wise handymen used ear wax in a pinch for a lubricant on bolts and nuts and wood screws before we had battery drills and phillips heads. Probably has better anti corrosion qualities than silicone and its always in your "tool Box"

    Heres something if you have clean ears:

    http://stormgrounding.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/no-ox-id.html

    And a ground clamp that will not fail:

    http://store.electrical-insulators-and-copper-ground-bars.com/gvn-jrd-clamp.html

    Better than exothermic welding, for the average guy.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
  9. jetlag

    jetlag New Member

    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    Ga.
    Wont scream on that one but he must use a 240 volt 20 amp double breaker in the panel to feed the shared neutral multiwire branch circuit . Even though he will be connecting 2 - 120 v circuits . Set a j box in the closet to tie in the 2 #12 cables to hot tub cable , But you must leave the j box cover so it is accessable . There are exceptions to the panel in a closet , it is allowed in the cloths closet in a mobile home , it is also allowed in a closet if you can prove it is not for cloths or combustible items , but you must have proper clearance, 30 " wide and 36 " in front .
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2010
  10. Alectrician

    Alectrician DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    689
    You can not put a panel in the dwelling bathroom or in a clothes closet.


    Subtle but important difference.
  11. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,529
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Very true and thank you
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