220v to 110v

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by Stat Man, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    I have a 50amp 220v line (3 wire plus ground) in my master bath that is hard-wired to a hot tub. Remodeling the bathroom and replacing the hot tub with a 110v air bath. Can I use the 220v line to feed a sub-panel (I would hide it in a closet in the bathroom) and then branch two 110v circuits out of the sub-panel?
  2. Thatguy

    Thatguy Homeowner

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    1,460
    Location:
    MD
    Post a link to the specs for your hot tub.
  3. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    It's 18 years old, I can't even find it on the manufacturers website.
  4. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Location:
    North Carolina
    NO

    You can not put a panel in the bathroom or in a closet.

    Yes you can use the branch circuit to feed a panel as long as the conductors are protect at or below the ampacity of the conductors.
    The panel can not face in the bathroom or a closet but can be in the same wall as long as it faces out of these places.
  5. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Can you explain why it can't be in the bathroom closet?
  6. nukeman

    nukeman Nuclear Engineer

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    709
    Location:
    VA
    It is an electrical code issue (NEC). Panels are not allowed in closets or bathrooms.
  7. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Bummer, thanks for the clarification. Guess I need to go to plan B
  8. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Well in a closet we have all kinds of stuff like cloth that will burn real easy. In the bathroom we have a lot of moisture in the form of a vapor such as steam and other things like this.

    Besides all this it is a violation of 240.24(D)&(E) of the NEC. (D) says no overcurrent devices in a closet and (E) says no overcurrent in a bathroom. Now if you wanted to set a panel in either location it would be okay just as long as you didn't install any overcurrent devices such as fuses or breakers.
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    I think you would need to run another cable. While neutral is connected to ground in the main panel, a subpanel needs the neutral and ground to be separate, along with the two legs (i.e. a 4-wire cable, not three). The neutral is supposed to carry the return current, not the ground wire. The ground is for safety, not current for normal operation. A 240vac device does not need the neutral lead, but a 120vac circuit does.
  10. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    The current cable is a 4 wire cable.
  11. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
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    Location:
    northfork, california
    Seen MANY panels in closets. Never saw a fire. They get a lot less water vapor than the feeder panel outside on the pole or wall. Those code panels exposed in a hall usually get a picture hung over them so they cant be located anyway.

    By the way, you already have at least one 120v circuit by using that big cable and one of the hot wires. Get rid of the 50 amp breaker and feed one wire with a 20 amp breaker at the main panel. Put a J box in the bath and hook up your 12g romex to that one wire and the ground and neutral.

    You also have the second 120v circuit by duplicating that with another 20 amp breaker at the panel and sharing the neutral, but the guys here will probably scream.

    PS: why [2] 120 v circuits for a bathtub air blower? You would also need GFCI breakers unless the tub has its own.
  12. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    One for the blower and a second one for new outlets to be installed.
  13. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

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    Location:
    northfork, california
    What is your total amp draw expected? Blower will be off most of the time anyway. Likely one 20A circuit will suffice.
  14. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    The tub install instructions say: "The pump and blower are designed for use with an independent 15 amp, 120V electrical power supply protected by an over current protection device rated not more than 15 Amp."
  15. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
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    Location:
    San Diego
    I have also seen panels in the bathroom. They used to do this sometimes before the code prohibited it.

    I am sure the NFPA could quote case histories of fires or shock hazards caused by such location. It wasn't a good idea when it was done, and now it is against code.

    Actually, besides the fire/moisture issues, I believe part of the reason for the restriction is that they like the panels to be visible and readily accessible.
  16. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Anyone else want to comment on whether or not this is a good way to accomplish my goal?
  17. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

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    Location:
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    If the instructions say 15 amp them a 15 amp breaker is the largest that you should use. Everything else will be okay
  18. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    I service a lot of apartments where the panel is in the bathroom behind the door when it is swung open, and also closets as long as there is 3' open space in front of it.
  19. ballvalve

    ballvalve General Engineering Contractor

    Messages:
    3,261
    Location:
    northfork, california
    So use 15 amp breakers on that big wire rework. You would have to clip some of the leads to get it to fit the breaker.
  20. Stat Man

    Stat Man New Member

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    19
    Location:
    Cedar Rapids, IA
    Thanks for all the help everyone!!!!
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