well/pump/blattertank???

[vleespet]

He guys....looking for some help from the pro's

I live on saint simons island,GA.
I think most of the watersupplies here is citywater but i am still on a well.
The house was built by my wife's grandparents in the early eighties so was the well.
I have no idea how deep the well is...I don't think it is really deep. I heared either 30 or 90 feet deep and there is about a 2" pipe sticking out of the ground. the pump is a 1 hp above ground and it has a blue blattertank from Amtrol WX-203 wit habout 30 gallons I believe

I haven't had any big trouble and it was supplying the house with 2 adults and a child pretty good and my sun and wife are big "bathtubbers" so we use quite bit of water.Everything fine the last 6 years.

About 6 months ago I had problems with sand coming through and clogging my washer and other spigots...no good. I called some people and i heared different opinions...one said there is a hole in the casing and that i need to let a new well drilled($5000)

I had help from a guy and he told me to install a filter that is backwashable from Rusco.This worked like a charm!Just backwash it every week and no more sand in the house.

Today when I came home from a long day of work and off course in the weekend we did not have pressure in the house.

Here is what is happening:

The pump is running until it reaches the right pressure and cuts off.
Here is the funny part...when the pump cuts off i hear a gurgling sound and the pressure drops until the pump cuts back on and it keeps doing this over and over. In the meanwhile while it is doing this there is no pressure in the house
Also the blattertank doesn't look like it is filling up cuz it was very lightweight when I tipped it slightly.

My (stupid) questions are:

1.Is the blattertank faulty and the water goes back in the well when the pump stops????

2.After running it a while today there is a good bit of sludge like mud on the backwashfilter. I guess the well is kinda on its way out???
If I have to have a well drilled they told me it needs to be 450 feet deep...just the new code I guess here on the island.
Can they drill the well on the same place or do they need to do it so many feet away?I'm just curious since the well is on the corner of my lot and can't go too far anymore.Can they just take the casing out and drill the new well on the same place since it is much deeper?

thanks for any advice...

Ron van velzen

 

[Bob NH]

It sounds like you might have a failed check valve or foot valve. That would allow water to flow backwards when the pump shuts off.

The tank being empty is not a symptom of bladder tank failure. A failed bladder usually results in a waterlogged (full) tank with little or no air.

I would do a lot of checking with the city before I accepted some driller's assertion that you need to go to 450 feet because of some city rule. You might be better off to try to connect to the city water supply.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[vleespet]

valve

I have not seen any kind of backflow valve in my well system that i'm aware of...would this be in the pipe that goes down the well or somewhere else

We are not able too hook on to city water yet...might be in the near future

Thanks Bob

Ron

 

[Cass]

The foot /check valve is attached to the pump and you wouldn't see it.

You may also have a broken line between the well and house or a leak at the pitless adapter or in the drop pipe.

Unless you are very handy / capable I would call a well guy to correct the problem quickly.

You may be getting mud because the well is running so much that you are exceeding it's capacity that under normal circumstances you wouldn't.

Because of the mud I am going to guess that the line between the well and house is broken.

 

[vleespet]

well

First of all thank you guys for your replies.

The pump is a 1 hp and it is above ground pump not submersible what they use nowadays I guess.I don't know if that would make a difference with the foot/check valve?

There is a ball valve right before the line goes into the ground to the house after the watersoftener and when I close that it still does the same.So My guess is that the line going to the house is still intact.

What a pitless adapter is I don't know...I have to do some research on that

The water that comes out right after the pump is sandy/muddy so I am thinking the "casing" is got a hole in it? I believe it is galvanised and they tell me that problem is not fixable.
Could it also be that the well has collapsed?
I found out that the well is only 80 feet deep.

I will call out a well guy in the morning and get his opinion and quote for a new well.

If the new well has to go way deeper can't they use the same spot to drill otr does it need to be a certain amount of feet apart?
If they can I guess the roof of my lil ole wellhouse need to come off?

Here a picture of my well house with how it is rigged up...do not laugh
I bypassed the watersoftener by the way

 

[Rancher]

The pump is a 1 hp and it is above ground pump not submersible what they use nowadays I guess.I don't know if that would make a difference with the foot/check valve?]

You have an above ground jet pump, it can pull water up about 25', the check valve is integral to the pump

What a pitless adapter is I don't know

You don't have a pitless adapter.

What happens when you open that gate valve and ball valve directly above the pump... do you get good flow out when the pump is running? you might have somekind of blockage betweek the pump and tank.

Rancher

 

[vleespet]

ball valve

"What happens when you open that gate valve and ball valve directly above the pump... do you get good flow out when the pump is running? you might have somekind of blockage betweek the pump and tank."

I did not try that yet....I just came back from checking it out but it is not pumping water at all right now after 2 mins pumping.

Ron

 

[vleespet]

rancher

Rancher.

I tried it this morning and it pumped water again at a good flow but with sand in it.
When I opened the ball valve directly above the pump after the gate valve(that is stuck on open) the water flows out with high pressure...so no problem there.

So do you think the pipe below this valve that goes directly to the tank is blocked somehow?

I have a well guy coming over this afternoon to check it all out.He is retired and worked with a well contractor for 30 yrs.

thanks

Ron

 

[Speedbump]

I got your PM. The sand is the worst part of the whole thing. Once a well starts pumping sand, it's usually on it's last legs.

You have a two inch well apparently with a droppipe and a footvalve. This is a normal install for the kind of system you have.

You may or may not have a hole in the casing. It's hard to say since we can't see what's under that slab.

Because of the sand problem not to mention any other problems, I would lean towards the new well. Or the city if you can swing it. I hate to recommend city water to anyone, but if your new well has to go that deep, it may be less money initially.

bob...

 

[vleespet]

well

bob

Thanks for the reply my man...really appreciate your time.
Like I said I have a well guy coming over this afternoon to take a look at the situation out here.

I'm afraid you are right that the well might be going south since there is excessive sand in the water right now.

I did some research on the footvalve and that is actually a valve that prevents the water to drain back in the well correct?If it is then this might be the problem that I originally posted that the gurgling sound is the water draining back to the well?Maybe a defective footvalve.

I called the well company that is the most well known company out here but also the most expensive is what I heared.
They told be since I live on Saint Simons Island they only drill deep wells 600-700 feet deep.The reason for that is to prevent salt water to come in the well and destroy I guess pump/tank and other accessories?
Really weird since I have a shallow well right now and never had salt water in there as far as I know,and it has been there for 25 years.

They charge a flat rate of $5500 and this inludes:
- 600-700 feet deep 4,5" wide well.
- 1 Hp submersible pump brand Goulds
- Aqua Air pressure tank 5500

If I decide to drill new are there any other questions I need to ask?

thanks

Ron

 

[vleespet]

jet

I talked to another well contractor and he told me about the option of trying to "rebuild" the well.
If I understand correctly they do this by "jetting" the well with high pressure.

But when I told him it was a 2" well that would not be an option.

Funny man...he told me a 2" well is like a butane lighter...when it is out you throw it away and get a new one

 

[Speedbump]

Your correct on the footvalve. It probably has a small stone stuck in it and can't close all the way.

The price for the system is not bad by my standards here. Especially for a well that deep.

I think the reason you didn't have salt water before is because you are just tapped into the surface water vein. That's probably where the sand is coming from.

bob...

 

[Rancher]

Bob,

Can a 2" well be "re-screened", seems like that is what is needed.

Rancher

 

[Speedbump]

Yes if it's not a driven 2" well. In other words, if the screen is 1-1/4" with a K-Packer or a Bremer Check that can be pulled out. But screens don't normally rot out. They plug up instead. I'm thinking he has a hole in the casing or maybe a rock well with no screen and the sand is filtering down beside the casing into the hole.

bob...

 

[vleespet]

screen

If there is a screen....where would it be in the casing?Top or bottom?

 

[Rancher]

Could you use a screen like this 1-1/4" down inside that 2" well?

Rancher

 

[Speedbump]

It would be at the bottom out of the casing all but a foot of added tail pipe or so.

That screen you show Rancher, would just let the casing fill with sand.

bob...

 

[vleespet]

tank

He guys...me again.

the well guy came over...we let the water pump for a long time while we were talking and the water cleared up with very minimum sand.

I hate to tell all the pros here but I just want to try and "rig" it and try if it wil last for a while until I am financially ready to get a new well.
And I am originally from Holland and we are cheap

I did remove the pressure tank and the line was full of sand...so that would have been the original problems that the thread started.

Is there a way to remove sand from the pressure tank?I believe there is some in there or will it wash out through the filter when I start the pump?I noticed there is some kind of valve at the bottom of the tank that doesn't let anything come out

I ordered another backwash filter to put between the tank and the pump...I know it will be rigged...sorry.

If there is still a lot of sand coming up in the future he said you might be able to stick a 1.25" pipe down in the casing with a 10ft screen to block the sand.

If not I just need to get a new well and try to find a driller that is willing to drill 200+ft to save cost.He told me that 600ft+ is not necessary..there will be no salt water coming in the well.

 

[vleespet]

deep

Oh Yeah...I emailed my wife's uncle that lived here before us and his dad drilled the well...and his dad told him that he went down 150 ft

 

[Speedbump]

Everything you are doing is temporary if the well continues to pump sand. If you put that filter between the pump and tank you will be putting your pump at risk.

I'm not sure what valve your referring to. If you mean on the tank you showed the picture of, the elbow we are looking would be at the bottom, do you mean the valve stem on the top of the tank?

bob...