Well cycling

[Aaron Shrogman]

I have a leak in my main line going from well to storage tanks. I won't be able to repair for about a week. Currently my submersible well pump, 220 V, 90 ft. deep, 40-60 pressure switch, 40 gallon pressure tank, is cycling at 1 minute of run time and 13 minutes of rest before the 40-60 shut off kicks in. Before the leak it rested longer. Is it a problem having it rest 13 minutes after a 1 minute run time for one more week? Thanks, Shrogman

 

[Reach4]

Should be fine.

You could adjust the pressure switch down to maybe 25/45 psi or 30/50 psi to reduce the rate of leakage. Drop the air precharge down to 2 psi below the new cut-in pressure, and then adjust the air precharge back up when you adjust the pressure up later.

3.5 turns CCW on the nut on the big spring should adjust the water pressure down by about 10 psi for both cut-in and cut-out.

If you had a pitless adapter, the leak could be at the pitless o-ring.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Fitter30]

That time frame wouldn't bother me. Always can turn the breaker off when no one is home and at night. Each toilet has one flush.

 

[Bannerman]

Cycling reduces the lifespan of the pump, pressure tank, check valve, & pressure switch.

An ON/Off cycle every 14-minutes, equals ~102 cycles per day. This amount of cycling would be concerning when water is actually being utilized, but is totally unnecessary when no water is needed. Until the leak is repaired, suggest shutting off the breaker or other electrical control to the pump, and activate only while water is actually needed.

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

Thanks guys,
Always appreciate your input. I doubled my holding tanks to two 2400 gallon tanks two years ago so with 4800 gallons of storage I should have some time to shut off well pump and let it rest. When I throw the breaker and shut off electrical to well, should I also shut off water from the main line of well. I don't know a lot about submersible pumps. I won't have to reprime the well pump if it sits for 12-24 hours off? Will I?
Appreciated ... Shrogman

 

[Reach4]

No priming with a submersible pump.

 

[Bannerman]

I won't have to reprime the well pump if it sits for 12-24 hours off?

A submersible pump does not require priming. Because the pump is fully submerged, even while the pump is shut off, the pump and drop pipe will be filled with water up to the static water level within the well.

should I also shut off water from the main line of well.

Clarify this statement. Is your submersible supplying water to both your home and cisterns? If so, how does the water in storage within the cisterns supplied your home when needed?

If the well submersible is utilized for only filling the cisterns, effectively creating two separate systems, the submersible pump's pressure switch & pressure tank could be eliminated by replacing the in-cistern float valve control with a float switch to directly control power to the submersible well pump.

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

Thank you and to clarify ... I have the 90' well, 220V, 40-60 switch, 40 gallon pressure tank that supplies water to irrigation taps throughout front acre of my property, (about 10 taps- at night these taps run sprinklers on timers throughout property- currently all irrigation is off. There is also a shop and studio appt. also supplied water from well directly. Uninhabited and no water use here currently.) The well also has a 1 1/2" water line that runs uphill about 40' in elevation, about 400+ foot run to 2-2400 gallon cisterns. These cisterns have a line that runs downhill to an additional 40-60 switch, above ground pump with an 80 gallon pressure tank that pressurizes our house as well as the rear acre taps which also have timers for irrigation (also ll turned off currently.) We do have gravity flow into the house from cisterns but psi is only about 20+ psi. I doubled our standing water supply two years ago by updating piping and installing a second 2400 gallon cistern. we have water (even if at lower pressure) when power is out from PG&E. We live out in the country on a long road and because it's all ranch country and soarcely populated we are the last in line for PG&E repairs. In an emergency, we have lots of gravity flow water especially if we conserve. I have main well pump shut off now, pressure at well is 0. But we have the 4800 gallons still charging the house pressurizing pump and the house. I will monitor water level in tanks and turn on well if we get even close to 1000 gallons left in tank. Thanks again everyone ...

 

[Valveman]

So, both the well pump and the booster pump have pressure tanks and pressure switches?

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

Correct ...

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

I noticed when working on my well, that my 40-60 pressure switch on the above ground house pressurizing pump there is a low pressure cut off lever. But the 40-60 pressure switch on my submersible well pump does not have the low pressure cut off lever. Is this a safety feature I should have on my submersible well pump?

 

[Reach4]

Normally you do not want the lever.

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

Thank you Reach4, your advice in the past has always been spot on... but could you explain please, so I understand why?

 

[Reach4]

1. The low pressure cutoff can be inconvenient and confusing. You would have to hold the lever if you exhausted your pressure tank after a power outage. You would need to train everybody who might be home alone during a power outage.

2. If your air precharge is a little high, and you are using a lot of water, there could be a transient pressure drop that trips the switch. With a regular switch, there is just a small stutter in water pressure.

3. In the intended case, a well not keeping up, the problem may not be detected. The pump can be pumping a mix of air and water, and the low-pressure cutoff does not detect that.

Here are a couple posts from LLigetfa, who has had experience on those:

Frugality at its finest

I have terrible water quality that wreaks havoc on everything between the well and and the softener. The pressure switch is no exception. I've had to change out the switch before when mineral buildup under the diaphragm would keep the switch from turning on. About 8 years ago I installed an...

www.terrylove.com

No water and well pressure is at zero

I just bought a home on a well and find that the water in the house frequently stops running, especially after doing laundry, but also several times throughout the day. I check the pressure gauge and it reads zero. I reset the pressure switch and I hear the water start to run as the pressure...

www.terrylove.com

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

Thank you Reach4 ... I appreciate your time in response and explanations in helping me to understand. Appreciated ...

 

[Sarg]

I actually prefer the pressure switch with the on/off lever so I can control the pump while doing maintenance without walking to the breaker panel.

 

[Valveman]

I actually prefer the pressure switch with the on/off lever so I can control the pump while doing maintenance without walking to the breaker panel.

The one with the on/off lever is different from the M4 which has the same lever, just drops out at low pressure not on or off.

 

[Valveman]

Thank you Reach4, your advice in the past has always been spot on... but could you explain please, so I understand why?

The low pressure cut off lever is not very reliable to protect against the pump running dry and is usually just a nuisance trip device. A Cycle Sensor is much more reliable to protect either or both the well pump and booster pump from running dry, and can be adjusted to reset itself after a certain time, letting the well recover. But it can also be set to need a manual reset when used with the booster pump as the cistern can not recover after time like a well.

Cycle Sensor Pump Monitor – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

Buy It! Interactive Animation General Information Specifications Wiring Diagram Installation Instructions Installation Video Troubleshooting

cyclestopvalves.com

 

[LLigetfa]

I actually prefer the pressure switch with the on/off lever so I can control the pump while doing maintenance without walking to the breaker panel.

The low cutoff can double as an on/off lever as well. There is a cam built into the lever that pushes down on the diaphragm. That is why it has to be held "just so" since lifting it too far puts it into the off position. When I lobotomized the low-cutoff, it preserved the off position on the lever.

I chose instead to hard-wire in a double-pole on/off switch instead so I would not have to work on live wiring. Later I removed the switch and replaced it with a Type 6, 240V plug/receptacle that I can unplug and/or move between mains/generator as I don't have an automatic transfer switch.

 

[Aaron Shrogman]

Thanks guys ... I learn a lot here. Appreciated!