Replaced well pump and tank, possible pipe leak?

[jet18357]

New here so I'm sure this has been discussed and I haven't found it yet. I used to be able to fill a 200 gallon stock tank from my well with no issues. Had a drought in Southern PA this summer so I stopped doing that after thinking I was having a well recovery issue. Fast forward to about 2 weeks ago I ran about 35 gallons out of my hose to fill a small trough. Wife called and said water completely stopped working, figured out the pump failed and replaced it, was still having pressure issues so replaced the pressure tank (yes it was waterlogged), pressure switch and all other hardware needed. 10gpm ½hp pump, 32 gallon pressure tank set at 38, 40/60 pressure switch with low pressure shut off. I noticed when running the sink it cycles on and off at 40/60 like it should but when running a shower or bath it'll only get to about 55 and run constantly. I do have a check valve at the T. My thought is that I have a leak between the pump and the house. 135' deep, 20gpm well but drilled in 83 so I'm sure that's changed. Also noticed since replacing it'll shut off due to low pressure. Does my leak theory seem plausible in that it's not allowing the pump to build enough pressure and cycle like it should causing the pump to heat up and shut down? Once I cycle the pump back on it seems fine and water works again. If it's any help before I replaced the tank and switch it did the same thing but no low pressure switch to reset but after about 10 minutes or so the water was back to working fine.
Thanks----JET

 

[Valveman]

Yeah, a 10 GPM pump should be cycling on and off when using a 3 GPM shower. If you have a check valve above ground, gut it or remove it. Then if pressure drops when no water is being used that would confirm a leak somewhere before the pressure tank. Water logged tank, failed pump, and even a hole in the pipe can all be caused by the pump cycling on and off too much.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[jet18357]

Yeah, a 10 GPM pump should be cycling on and off when using a 3 GPM shower. If you have a check valve above ground, gut it or remove it. Then if pressure drops when no water is being used that would confirm a leak somewhere before the pressure tank. Water logged tank, failed pump, and even a hole in the pipe can all be caused by the pump cycling on and off too much.

I did take the check valve out and put a regular coupling in it's place, pressurized to the first valve past the tank. It lost roughly 3psi in about an hour to an hour and a half, not much but I'm suspecting a small leak.

 

[Reach4]

10gpm ½hp pump, 32 gallon pressure tank set at 38, 40/60 pressure switch with low pressure shut off. I noticed when running the sink it cycles on and off at 40/60 like it should but when running a shower or bath it'll only get to about 55 and run constantly. I do have a check valve at the T. My thought is that I have a leak between the pump and the house. 135' deep, 20gpm well but drilled in 83 so I'm sure that's changed.

EDIT: my original response failed to take in some of the info that was right there. So I am not sure if the symptoms point to a leak. A topside checkvalve could hide a leak.

I suspect that your water level could be deep enough that a 1/2 hp 10 gpm pump cannot supply that much water at 60 psi. That is not in itself bad. Maybe your shower draws a lot of gpm.

Gutting or removing the topside check valve would make a leak, or not, obvious.

 

[Valveman]

32 gallon tank only holds 8 gallons of water. Shouldn't take 10 minutes to fill and shut off the pump. Even if the water level is 130' a 10 GPM, 1/2HP should produce 5 GPM at 60 PSI. I think it should be cycling on/off when using a 3 GPM shower. That and taking 10 minutes to fill the tank makes me think your pumping the well down more than too deep for the pump. Do a wide open test and see how fast it fills a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[Reach4]

I do have a check valve at the T.

I missed comprehending that originally. An above-ground check valve makes my original thoughts not apply. I plan to amend my earlier post.

Also noticed since replacing it'll shut off due to low pressure.

A pressure switch with a lever is usually not a good idea.

If it's any help before I replaced the tank and switch it did the same thing but no low pressure switch to reset but after about 10 minutes or so the water was back to working fine.

Does that your new pressure switch does not have the lever, or does it mean that your new pressure switch does have the low-pressure cutoff, but the cutoff did not occur?

 

[jet18357]

32 gallon tank only holds 8 gallons of water. Shouldn't take 10 minutes to fill and shut off the pump. Even if the water level is 130' a 10 GPM, 1/2HP should produce 5 GPM at 60 PSI. I think it should be cycling on/off when using a 3 GPM shower. That and taking 10 minutes to fill the tank makes me think your pumping the well down more than too deep for the pump. Do a wide open test and see how fast it fills a 5 gallon bucket.

No indication of a leak. No problem to address IMO.

I expect that your water level is deep enough that a 1/2 hp 10 gpm pump cannot supply that much water at 60 psi. That is good, not bad. A more expensive 1/2 hp 7 gpm pump, with more stages, would give more pressure and cycle when you shower. But instead be happy that your shower is good. Your bath is good.

Would you guys recommend going to a ½hp 7 gpm pump instead of the 10? I only went with what i have because it was a Saturday when it went up and it was all I could get.

 

[jet18357]

I missed comprehending that originally. An above-ground check valve makes my original thoughts not apply. I plan to amend my earlier post.


A pressure tank with a lever is usually not a good idea.

Does that your new pressure switch does not have the lever, or does it mean that your new pressure switch does have the low-pressure cutoff, but the cutoff did not occur?

The new one does have a low pressure cut off, my only reasoning for that was I am still slightly worried about it being a true recovery issue. I know just enough about well repair to say I don't know anything but am a danger to myself. It did cutoff the other day when my wife was using the hose.

 

[Valveman]

Again...Do a wide open test and see how fast it fills a 5 gallon bucket. Sounds like you can do it from the hose. I don't think the well is making 5 GPM. When you first turn it on it should make 10-12 GPM for a short time (2 hoses) then visibly drop to 4-5 GPM if it is what I am thinking. Don't change the pump until you test the well. Even then I think you have the right pump, just a well screen issue.

 

[jet18357]

Again...Do a wide open test and see how fast it fills a 5 gallon bucket. Sounds like you can do it from the hose. I don't think the well is making 5 GPM. When you first turn it on it should make 10-12 GPM for a short time (2 hoses) then visibly drop to 4-5 GPM if it is what I am thinking. Don't change the pump until you test the well. Even then I think you have the right pump, just a well screen issue.

I was late getting home from work and did not get a chance to do the bucket test. I should be off on time tomorrow and will give it a shot.

 

[jet18357]

Again...Do a wide open test and see how fast it fills a 5 gallon bucket. Sounds like you can do it from the hose. I don't think the well is making 5 GPM. When you first turn it on it should make 10-12 GPM for a short time (2 hoses) then visibly drop to 4-5 GPM if it is what I am thinking. Don't change the pump until you test the well. Even then I think you have the right pump, just a well screen issue.

It took me 30 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket from the drain at the T. Give or take a second or two for turning it and my stopwatch on.

 

[jet18357]

Again...Do a wide open test and see how fast it fills a 5 gallon bucket. Sounds like you can do it from the hose. I don't think the well is making 5 GPM. When you first turn it on it should make 10-12 GPM for a short time (2 hoses) then visibly drop to 4-5 GPM if it is what I am thinking. Don't change the pump until you test the well. Even then I think you have the right pump, just a well screen issue.

After reading this a few times I may be admittedly misunderstanding. Do I continue to run water for a while seeing how much it slows each time?

 

[Reach4]

It took me 30 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket from the drain at the T. Give or take a second or two for turning it and my stopwatch on.

30 seconds would be 10 gpm. Maybe time a second bucket also, looking for a steep drop-off.

Ten GPM is quite a bit to push through a typical garden hose.

 

[jet18357]

30 seconds would be 10 gpm. Maybe time a second bucket also, looking for a steep drop-off.

Ten GPM is quite a bit to push through a typical garden hose.

After rereading it i did it through a hose bib off of a half inch line took about 1 minute 10 seconds to fill it.

 

[Valveman]

Turn on the big hose, the one that filled 5 gallons in 30 seconds. Let it run wide open for 30 minutes and measure again.

 

[jet18357]

Turn on the big hose, the one that filled 5 gallons in 30 seconds. Let it run wide open for 30 minutes and measure again.

That's where I think I would run into issues if I let it run like that I think it would stop pumping water. In reality it may be a recovery issue or after reading some more about it a well screen issue.

 

[Reach4]

That's where I think I would run into issues if I let it run like that I think it would stop pumping water. In reality it may be a recovery issue or after reading some more about it a well screen issue.

All the more reason for doing the test, but monitor the test. If the pump stops pumping water, is the pump still on, or did the pump shut off due to overheating or whatever. Either way, turn the pump off, or at least close the spigot.

If you run out of water, is it pumping air+ water?

 

[jet18357]

All the more reason for doing the test, but monitor the test. If the pump stops pumping water, is the pump still on, or did the pump shut off due to overheating or whatever. Either way, turn the pump off, or at least close the spigot.

If you run out of water, is it pumping air+ water?

I will do it in the morning, my wife said she has noticed that since I installed the low pressure switch that when she does laundry that it cuts out. It cuts right back on and works fine when she resets it. I'm a lineman not a well man, just hard headed enough that I try to figure stuff out for myself.

 

[jet18357]

So i know this isn't what I was told to do but I had to fill a pig trough. I ran about 40 gallons of water, spigot not fully open, in right about 6 minutes. Did some other stuff i had to do outside, came in noticed the gauge was right at 40, ran the sink for a second and low pressure switch shut it off instead of turning on, when I engage the switch the pipes past the T (¾" cpvc) seem to buck like possible air in the line but the water picks right up.

 

[Fitter30]

Need a clamp on amp meter can purchase one for under $25. With max water flow that amp draw a constant at a certain water pressure. Then dead head the pump ( valve system off, either jump out pressure switch or disconnect the line and plug it, for less that a minute, amp draw and gauge pressure). That is the performance of the pump. If you have the brand and model of pump. By running pump dry will cause the pump from not pumping because the shaft seal has failed.