Water Refiner, water softener, RO, Filtration...ugh, help?

[Poppinfresh]

Recently relocated from a place with great water (Seattle) to a place with pretty mediocre water (Denver).

So, we're trying to fix that.

After doing some comparisons, I decided to buy an Ecowater ERR3700 water refiner and one of their RO units, as well (just convenient with the RO thing, even though I know I could save some cash here by going to Lowe's and grabbing literally anything). I chose the 3700 because it's a "refiner", whereas the other product I was looking at (Kinetico) is merely a "softener". These are all terms I've learned in the last week, so have to use quotes.

The question that comes into play is this: With a refiner...does adding a whole home water filtration system offer any benefits, or is it simply redundant to the refiner itself? There's simply too much terminology. There was something in all the sales pitches about not being able to link up the refiner lines or RO lines or...something...to my refrigerator (a Sub-Zero) because it doesn't generate enough pressure and the Sub-Zero flips out about that. I got to thinking that if I added a filtration system to boot (was looking at one of the Pelican estate-level systems), I might be able to get water that doesn't taste like a science experiment out of the fridge, as well.

 

[Reach4]

The question that comes into play is this: With a refiner...does adding a whole home water filtration system offer any benefits, or is it simply redundant to the refiner itself? There's simply too much terminology.

A refiner? In oil, that involves a fractional distillation process. What is this thing you are considering? Or is that your question>

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Old]

Are you on city water or well water? (I assume city)

Looks like the "refiner" is a softener with some coconut carbon thrown in. https://www.ecowater.com/home-water-solutions/water-refiners/
The carbon is there to remove chlorine. However this type of system typically only has a small amount and does not last very long. It is not an ideal setup. If it's not too late I would stay away from ecowater. Try to find a reputable local water treatment specialist that sells fleck or clack equipment. If you want to remove chlorine ("refiner") get a separate backwashing unit instead of an "all in one" system.

With the refrigerator, they are probably talking about the RO pressure not being high enough for the refrigerator. This does happen with some refrigerators. You can hook up a delivery pump to boost the RO pressure for the refrigerator. https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-682-aquatec-5853-7e12-j524-pump-17-gpm-38jg-115v.aspx

 

[Poppinfresh]

Thanks for the replies, peeps. Old hit it with the description. When I googled Water Softener or water refiner, it came up with an article that basically said a refiner was a full softener system that also did purification, but it just led me to questions about to what extent (and it looks like it doesn't completely do it).

We're in city water - it's not terrible (7 ppm or so on the hardness scale?), but coming from the best water in the country, the taste, calcification on our fixtures, and lack of lather just feels abominable. We ultimately settled on the Ecowater over the others mentioned because it requires so much less salt (once a year vs. once a month) and integrates with my home automation project (plus, it's a Costco vendor, so the deal is screaming and we know these people will be forced to provide good service or risk losing their arrangement). Were we to go with anything else, it would have been the Kinetico.

I'll look into this backwashing unit. Many thanks for that.

 

[Bannerman]

A 'refiner' is not common terminology for residential water treatment. I suspect that term is being used as marketing hype as is the claim for so little salt usage.

The amount of salt required is dependant on both the hardness of the water and salt efficiency that is programmed. Clack and Fleck control valves (two brands highly recommended on this forum) are reliable, high quality, fully programmable and parts and service are easily attained from a variety of sources.

Proprietary systems are not recommended as parts and service are typically only available from that manufacturer's dealer network.

Combining different media into a single tank is not usually the best action. Each media can have a unique backwash requirement and in backwashing them together can often cause accelerated wear. As there is limited space in a single tank, you will also experience reduced performance and capacity for each.

A method to utilize 2 media with a single control valve would be a stacked 2 tank hybrid system as shown at the link below, otherwise individual systems are appropriate.
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/12

It would be helpful to review your municipality's water test results. These are now usually posted online so a link to the municipal report should be made available. If your intention is only to remove Chlorine, a modest quantity of GAC (granular activated carbon) will likely be adequate whereas if your water supplier is using Chlorimine, then a substantial quantity of Catalytic carbon will be necessary.

Water hardness should be tested at your specific location as municipalities will often state a 12-month average hardness from all sources, but hardness can vary throughout the distribution system depending on the season and your home's proximity to each water source. The Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit is the testing method most recommended for DIY and professionals alike.

 

[ditttohead]

Unfortunately you believed the marketing hype. Refiner vs. conditioner, super duper salt savings... etc. The system you got will work fine but the system is only serviceable by a single company due to the proprietary components and the locked market/territories. Almost any softener can be programmed for ultra high efficiency. No company has any super secret design that makes their unit massively more efficient, it is just marketing.

Ties into your home automation? Why. This sounds neat but 90+% of these never get used after the installation. A softener is a major appliance that should bet a set it and forget it item, not something you care about other than once every 6 months to a year you add salt to it.

Lastly, if you look at Costco.. they change vendors constantly. You would be hard pressed to fin a water company that hasn't been in a Costco. I have worked for companies that were in Costco, it never lasts, too much headache and too much push for margins, money etc...

IMHO you would have been much better off buying a non proprietary system for a much lower cost.

As to the RO, a good quality RO (not from AmaXon) with a simple permeate pump will work fine since they shut off at 95% of line pressure. A standard RO shuts off at 60% of line pressure.

 

[adypana]

Unfortunately you believed the marketing hype. Refiner vs. conditioner, super duper salt savings... etc. The system you got will work fine but the system is only serviceable by a single company due to the proprietary components and the locked market/territories. Almost any softener can be programmed for ultra high efficiency. No company has any super secret design that makes their unit massively more efficient, it is just marketing.

Ties into your home automation? Why. This sounds neat but 90+% of these never get used after the installation. A softener is a major appliance that should bet a set it and forget it item, not something you care about other than once every 6 months to a year you add salt to it.

Lastly, if you look at Costco.. they change vendors constantly. You would be hard pressed to fin a water company that hasn't been in a Costco. I have worked for companies that were in Costco, it never lasts, too much headache and too much push for margins, money etc...

IMHO you would have been much better off buying a non proprietary system for a much lower cost.

As to the RO, a good quality RO (not from AmaXon) with a simple permeate pump will work fine since they shut off at 95% of line pressure. A standard RO shuts off at 60% of line pressure.

can you recommend me a reputable local water treatment specialist that sells fleck or clack equipment in Denver/Arvada ?