Trim kit not flush with tile

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LLigetfa

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The other side of the wall is drywall. It's the master closet. I certainly wouldn't mind having a panel there for permanent access. Sounds like a clever idea.
It may be possible to "weaken" the existing blocking holding the valve rough-in by cutting saw kerfs part way through the blocking and then sister up more blocking behind it (if there is room) so that you can pull back the existing blocking. If there is not room to sister more blocking, you could drive a bunch of screws into the saw kerf to spread it and make the blocking bend back. BTDT

This cutting of saw kerfs and driving in wedges is something I sometimes do on crooked studs that create a bulge that affects tiling or cabinet placement. I cannot take credit for it as I learned it from someone else.
 

dannydan

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The small amount you need to move the valve shouldn't be a big issue. ARen't you only talking about maybe 1/8" or so?

I'd say actually closer to 1/2", possibly even slightly more. Could possibly get it to down to 1/4" with shortening the retainer + handle like the builder originally did...
 

dannydan

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It may be possible to "weaken" the existing blocking holding the valve rough-in by cutting saw kerfs part way through the blocking and then sister up more blocking behind it (if there is room) so that you can pull back the existing blocking. If there is not room to sister more blocking, you could drive a bunch of screws into the saw kerf to spread it and make the blocking bend back. BTDT

This cutting of saw kerfs and driving in wedges is something I sometimes do on crooked studs that create a bulge that affects tiling or cabinet placement. I cannot take credit for it as I learned it from someone else.

Do you happen to have a video / photo of this? I was having a hard time following this idea, to be quite honest :)
 

jadnashua

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A power plane, if you have access, can do quick work of making things straighter, but it does take a little skill! Get all of the nails and staples out first, though!

My joists on the first floor of my townhouse were way out of whack. After consulting a structural engineer, a laser, and a lot of work, I was able to get the floor very flat. The engineered, floating wooden floors needed the subfloor to be as flat as with tile or the stuff would oilcan. To minimize what needed to be cut off the high points, I applied shims to some of the low areas. On a wall, shims may be the easiest, if you can't use a sister to get things in plane.

Be careful if you try to literally move the wall, you may crack some tile!

The riser for the shower head may have blocking on it along the way, but if it's only at the top so the shower arm can be stable, you should be able to move things. If you cut out more of the drywall in the closet (easy to repair! unless textured or faux finish), you could replace part of that riser with pex, or add a couple of say 1/8th turn elbows to jog it the needed distance. I might consider just cutting out the drywall over most of that stud bay to see what you have in there.
 

Reach4

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I believe a plumber should be able to access the valve. Just requires cutting a hole through the drywall on the back.
How difficult of a job is it to pull that valve back a bit?
If I understand correctly, you would somehow have to elongate the hole in the horizontal wood, so that the pipe could push aft.
cut the vertical copper so that you can access that hole. Maybe you would need to add a jog in the copper pipe.

I think you may have to do some thing up top at the showerhead if you don't figure a way to jog the path.

Don't think that I have this mapped out in my head. My image of this is somewhat fuzzy.

I just saw LLigetfa's thought. Yeah, doing surgery on that wood beyond trying to elongate a hole makes sense.
 

LLigetfa

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I had a closer look at the before picture and cannot really see any blocking that should be there to hold the rough-in so not sure how it is supported. Open the backside by cutting out the drywall and see what it would take to move the rough-in back.
 

dannydan

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I had a closer look at the before picture and cannot really see any blocking that should be there to hold the rough-in so not sure how it is supported. Open the backside by cutting out the drywall and see what it would take to move the rough-in back.

It's not supported, that's the interesting part. Basically the only thing holding it in place I believe is the tension from the pex and the copper pipe going through the horizontal block holes.
 

LLigetfa

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It's not supported, that's the interesting part. Basically the only thing holding it in place I believe is the tension from the pex and the copper pipe going through the horizontal block holes.
Then it should be fairly easy to pull it back since the PEX will flex. You might need to enlarge the hole the copper pipe goes through.
 

dannydan

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Then it should be fairly easy to pull it back since the PEX will flex. You might need to enlarge the hole the copper pipe goes through.

I was thinking, since the copper goes through 2 horizontal blocks, perhaps it's easier to cut it in between and then use pex to connect the remainder to the valve? Otherwise I'd have to elongate both blocks and relocate the drop ear...
What do you think?
 

jadnashua

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Open the drywall, if the shower head riser runs through blocking, cut it out, and just move it. If they screwed or nailed it through the studs, you might have to open up part of the next bay and either unscrew it, or use a sawsall to cut the fasteners off. This isn't brain surgery, and even if you had to replace that entire section of drywall, it's not huge money, and it may be easier than trying to patch in a new section if you only cut part of it.
 

dannydan

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Open the drywall, if the shower head riser runs through blocking, cut it out, and just move it. If they screwed or nailed it through the studs, you might have to open up part of the next bay and either unscrew it, or use a sawsall to cut the fasteners off. This isn't brain surgery, and even if you had to replace that entire section of drywall, it's not huge money, and it may be easier than trying to patch in a new section if you only cut part of it.

Thanks. I was mainly concerned that if the entire copper pipe (I guess what you guys refer to as "riser"?) needs to move back, then so does the elbow at the top. Which means the shower neck gets pulled back further into the wall, and some of the integrity of the waterproofing / tile / thin set is compromised (pretty sure there is thin set or grout around the shower neck - if you pull on it things could get ugly).
Hence my thinking it'd be easier / safer to keep the top portion of the riser intact and "jog" to it from the valve (did I even use that word correctly?) either with pex or elbows etc.
 
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Tuttles Revenge

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If the goal is to get the trim perfect, then the easiest route at this point is to open the wall behind the shower valve, expose the valve, the 2 horizontal framing members and the shower head bar. Notch the horizontal members so the copper riser has free movement backwards. Since the kohler valve has no means of securing via screw holes, youll want to install a 3/4" plywood stringer to the back side of the wall you've opened and strap the valve to that stringer. remove the strap that the drop ear is attached to and shim out appropriately to accomplish it being plumb with the world. Install the trim and try not to cross thread the handle to the adapter which looks like probably happened with that hacked up bit of the old trim. Once satisfied its installed neat and tidy and doesn't move, patch up the back wall.

PS. Its always the General Contractor who is responsible to coordinate between the trades and communicate what the finished wall surfaces will be. If the homeowner chooses to hire each of the trades they are the defacto GC then it is on them to figure this out. I always write in my contracts that it is the GC who is responsible for setting all layout. Blaming the individual trades for lack of planning is something I see far too often.
 

jadnashua

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FWIW, neither tile NOR grout is considered waterproofing in a shower...it's what's behind it that is. On most showers built, the walls are not waterproof...they're water resistant, and, since gravity doesn't let it pool, don't need to be. You DO want moisture control IN the wall, and that will either be a moisture barrier behind the backer board, or waterproofing on TOP of the material. My preference in building a shower is to make the entire enclosure waterrPROOF, and that is best done with a sheet membrane rather than a liquid-applied one. Grout sealer doesn't waterproof anything, either! It helps slow a stain from happening so you can clean it off first.

If you move the bottom of the riser back into the wall some, that may not move the shower arm in/out, but may rotate it some...generally, that's not a big deal as long as it's not extreme. If you have the full stud bay uncovered, you may be able to just move the blocking along with the pipes...you won't know until you open it up fully and see exactly what's there.
 

dannydan

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Alright, I hired a plumber to take care of this, since I didn't feel confident enough to do it myself.
Here are the results, let me know what you guys think...

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jadnashua

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The important thing is do you like the end result? I don't see anything that shouts problems, but I'm not there!
 

Jeff H Young

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sometimes as easy as backing off on some screws holding the valve to the blocking then when the handle is tightened it will pull in even all around.
just one simple adjustment that sometimes works
 
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