Toto install: Rank-beginner q's

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Reach4

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Does that mean you wouldn't have to drill into concrete, the pushtite flange would be strong enough to hold the toilet? How, wouldn't the toilet still be able to rock back and forth?
You would still need to drill holes. That PushTite flange has a stainless steel ring. If it fit, it would provide a wider surface for the wax or other seal to work against than if you just used the repair ring. The repair ring holds the toilet down, but it does not provide a seal place.

If that white is part of the old flange, then there may be a good surface for the wax to press against. It was not clear to me in the photo.
 

aliris19

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You would still need to drill holes. That PushTite flange has a stainless steel ring. If it fit, it would provide a wider surface for the wax or other seal to work against than if you just used the repair ring. The repair ring holds the toilet down, but it does not provide a seal place.

If that white is part of the old flange, then there may be a good surface for the wax to press against. It was not clear to me in the photo.
I think the white is exposed thickness/cut of the PVC. It's not part of the old flange, which is rubble. I'll try to take a better picture later.
 

wjcandee

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I would just get out my drill and try to install the repair ring. Long term better solution. Let us know how it goes.
 

Reach4

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I would just get out my drill and try to install the repair ring. Long term better solution. Let us know how it goes.
Let's wait for the better picture. If the old flange is rubble, don't you think there should be more surface to meet the wax/other seal than the edge of a pipe?
 

wjcandee

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Huh. I thought that the wax seal filled the gap between the thing it is sitting on and the bottom of the toilet. Here, that would be whatever is outside the pipe and the toilet bottom.
 

Reach4

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Huh. I thought that the wax seal filled the gap between the thing it is sitting on and the bottom of the toilet. Here, that would be whatever is outside the pipe and the toilet bottom.
Suppose that thing is concrete?
 

jadnashua

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Is there a groove all around what's left of the existing flange? If so, they make split repair rings that will go around the flange, lock into that groove, and then you screw down the ring as if it were new. They come in galvanized and SS. FWIW, if it hadn't leaked a little, the steel one should not have rusted. It may be just a slight amount of moisture coming up through the slab...over time, that can be enough verses a leak, though.

As long as the wax can seal to the funnel of the existing flange and the toilet, the fact that the repair flange is slightly larger and outside of that area, really doesn't make a lot of difference. The ring is so you can anchor the toilet, not to make the seal.
 

Gary Swart

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There are several ways to secure things to concrete and they are not too difficult to DIY. My personal favorite is to drill holes in the concrete and then use lead anchors and #12 screws. Now don't panic about drilling concrete. A rotary hammer/drill can be rented quite reasonably. I actually own my own, it was cheap at Grizzly. I don't need it too often, but sure saves the day when I do. I've anchored deck supports with 1/2" expansion bolts, hammered out concrete, attached electrical outlet boxes to concrete walls, anchored 2x4's to the floor, hung cabinets to concrete walls, anchored toilet flanges to concrete floors, and probably a bunch more things than I can't remember off the top of my head.
 

Reach4

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I have had good results with blue Tapcon screws -- a brand of direct-into-concrete screws. They are sometimes packaged with a matching carbide-tipped drill bit.

This makes for a smaller hole to drill.
 

Gary Swart

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Pretty much personal preference. I have tried Tapcon screws but didn't have much success. That's why I stay with my lead anchors. I don't sell lead anchors, so nothing in this for me. Thing is, you still have to drill into the concrete and I know of no better way nor easier way than with a rotary hammer drill. I can drill 5/16" holes all day and now work up a sweat. Grizzly sells their hammer drills for about $150 so it's a bit pricey to buy for a one time job. That's where the rentals come into the picture. Don't even think about a regular drill.
 

wjcandee

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I'm not a fan of just using the push-tite. Use a repair ring and anchor it to the floor. It's not that big of a deal. It's what Terry does and what Terry recommended.
 

Reach4

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A local hardware store is going to order this SiouxChief "Push-Tite" gasket closet flange as suggested here. Anyone have an opinion as to the importance of using the stainless steel vs ABS repair flange? http://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...gasket-closet-flange---pushtite.pdf?sfvrsn=18
I would think the stainless version is worth getting, but the all-PVC is probably going to be durable enough. The good news is that if the flange ring were to fail, the PushTite closet flange would be much easier to change out than a glued flange would be.
 

aliris19

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Oh sorry - I didn't see this long discussion before posting...

At first I thought the white ring was the inside of the plastic pipe, with the pipe being coated with something to make it appear dark on the outside and the cut-profile exposing the inner light plastic which is the pipe's thickness.

However, I now believe the white is a part of the bottom of the flange, made from plastic. I think it set on top of the pipe (because there's a very slight overhang there with it being slightly smaller than the underlying pipe) and a raised circular dark ring is set back from that, with the metal flange beyond that still.

I really can't quite make it all out but maybe one of these pictures will help.

I'm not sure how much the wax needs for "gripping". The flange is rusted to dust in 180-degrees of its circumference or so and it appears that there's some still left for the rest of the circle. At least there is redness there and it seems as if the original flange was red.

When it comes to routing out concrete I'm out-of-my-league. But dh does have the needed drill bit and evidently prefers the lead sets. To my horror he proudly plopped a massive box of them on the kitchen counter. The hardware store sold me those blue screws, but as he's going to be doing that job it's his call for the preference. I just don't want the lead on the kitchen counter thankyouverymuch.

The repair flange I got at the hardware store is designed to fit above the rusted original flange and be secured by four screws in its corners. However the problem for me is there is tile in the way of those four corner-screws. DH doesn't want to start chipping back tile; prefers to go straight through the old flange or what's left of it.

My concern is whether the pushtite device will have a flange that's so large it would also require chipping back tile. At first I couldn't find specs that stated the diameter of the repair-flange, but I figured that out; I need 1 5/8" and it might be close in spots.

But I do like the looks of the pushtite device because it closes what will have to be a fairly considerable gap between the repair flange and the pipe. Because the now-rusted flange was set right into concrete, seemingly, there's a half-inch height difference I believe from where a repair flange could set and the start of the pipe. Because the pushtite fits inside the pipe, this contraption may be a good solution.

Considering that there is obviously dampness present I'm thinking the plastic flange might be better than the ss? But if someone thinks otherwise I'm grateful for their expertise.

Thanks all....
IMG_6236.JPG IMG_6235.JPG IMG_6234.JPG IMG_6233.JPG
 

aliris19

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I'm not a fan of just using the push-tite. Use a repair ring and anchor it to the floor. It's not that big of a deal. It's what Terry does and what Terry recommended.
wj - I believe the idea with the pushtite is it closes the gap from flange to pipe but you're still supposed to secure it to the floor.
 

aliris19

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Is there a groove all around what's left of the existing flange? If so, they make split repair rings that will go around the flange, lock into that groove, and then you screw down the ring as if it were new. They come in galvanized and SS. FWIW, if it hadn't leaked a little, the steel one should not have rusted. It may be just a slight amount of moisture coming up through the slab...over time, that can be enough verses a leak, though.

As long as the wax can seal to the funnel of the existing flange and the toilet, the fact that the repair flange is slightly larger and outside of that area, really doesn't make a lot of difference. The ring is so you can anchor the toilet, not to make the seal.
jad - I'm pretty sure those split repair rings won't work....
 

aliris19

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Update PVC vs SS: Ace hardware doesn't carry the ss, just the PVC so I'll try that because, well, it's my "only" (easy) choice.
 

Reach4

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wjcandee

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wj - I believe the idea with the pushtite is it closes the gap from flange to pipe but you're still supposed to secure it to the floor.

That's not really accurate, if I understand what you are saying. I'm not sure you understand how all this stuff interacts...

There are drawbacks to the push-tite.

And, FWIW, if Terry (or HJ or CacherChick) say to do something, that's usually the best advice...
 
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