Toto Carlyle II very slow to fill up-need help

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Icenet, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. Icenet

    Icenet New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hi All,
    This is my second Carlyle II. The first one I bought is two years old and is the 1.6 GPF. It's the best toilet I have ever owned. The new one is now 1.28 GPF and is in the second bathroom. The only difference in the installation between the two was my plumber had to move the pipe for the new one because of the skirt. I'm not sure if that makes any difference but the 1.28 is very slow in filling up after flushing. I timed the 1.28 at 1 minute 36 seconds to fill. The 1.6 fills up in 17 seconds! What's wrong with my toilet? Could it be defective? What part? Thanks!!
     

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  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Some fill valves are slower.
    The Korky 528MP does a nice quick job on those.
     
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  4. Icenet

    Icenet New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hi Terry,
    Thanks for responding. So your are saying the fill valve is not defective? Shouldn't I try replacing it with a the same Toto fill valve first?
    Thanks!!
     
  5. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    I would first close the new wall valve, disconnect the braided hose from the fill valve, and aim the hose into a bucket, open the new wall valve and ensure that you have good strong flow from it.

    Assuming that you do, the whole point is that the fill valve you have isn't the best one they use. It's most likely clogged with something, but since you are replacing it, you might as well put in the Korky one. Korky makes some of the valves Toto uses, and theirs are the best of the lot. (I myself, in our Carlyle II, removed the Voreto [Chinese] valve you have when it started chirping after a couple of months and put in the Made-in-the-USA 528MP. That was two years ago. No problems since.) You want the MaxPerformance version, the one with te silver cap. The white-cap one won't give you enough refill water going into the bowl, no matter what any of the "experts" at the hardware store tell you, so don't buy that one.*

    The easiest thing to replace it with is the Korky 528mp, with the silver cap, which will do you right. Korky has a youtube video on how to install it. It's available at Lowes, ace and hd. http://www.lowes.com/pd_336988-868-528MPK_0__?Ntt=528mpk&UserSearch=528mpk&productId=3284948&rpp=32 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Korky-QuietFill-MaxPERFORMANCE-Fill-Valve-528MCM/203145423

    You could also call toto customer support at 1-888-295-8134 and tell them you want them to send you a free tsu99a.x, bc your toilet is new and the fill valve is defective. They are very, very nice people. That Tsu99a.X, Toto's universal replacement fill valve, is virtually identical to the Korky 528 MP, and is made by Korky.



    *When the Aprons try to sell you a white-cap one ("They all work the same."), you can dazzle them with your knowledge that the white cap one has a 20-percent refill ratio, standard for old toilets, while the 528MP has variable refill from 0 to 40 percent. When you set yours up, you will find that the II series toilets (Drake II, Carlyle II, Vespin II, Ultramax II) all use around a 28 percent refill ratio, though it varies somewhat from bowl model to bowl model. [Drake II and Vespin II 28%, Carlyle II and Ultramax II 31%], One gallon into the tank, .28 gallon into the bowl. The Original Drake uses a 40 percent refill ratio.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    Some of the fill valves have a filter that can be removed and cleaned on the incoming side.
     
  7. Icenet

    Icenet New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Awesome help! Thanks guys!!
     
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    That's what we're here for.

    Let us know how it goes, or if you have any more questions.

    Terry is correct that the Voreto can sometimes be fixed by disconnecting the braided wall hose from the valve and using a needlenose pliers to extract that little filter from it, washing said filter, and reinstalling. I think we're all thinking that a little construction gunk may have gotten in the line when your plumber moved the wall valve, and might be blocking it right there. (That's one reason I mentioned that you should see if you have pressure/flow at the end of the braided hose. I was also thinking that any gunk might just drop out the bottom of the valve, if there was some right there, when you disconnected the hose.) So...when you check for flow you might also check that little filter. I'm guessing that the filter itself is not clogged, if only because the problem has been there since it was installed, but it's worth checking. And if that doesn't fix it, then, yeah, put in the Korky 528MP or get yourself a TSU99A.X from Toto. (Only get that TSU99A.X if it's free; there's no real advantage to using it as it is functionally-identical to the 528MP. It just gives Toto a branded product that they can sell as a replacement part to people who really, really want the "manufacturer's" part. )

    I think that Terry may be the impetus for the TSU99A.X by the way. For years, he has carried the 528MP valve on his truck so that he can fix/replace the fill valve on any Toto with one universal valve; instead of carrying a variety of different Toto valves with different heights and refill ratios, he carries the 528MP (now he carries the 528PRO, which is the pro version of the 528MP), leading to fewer parts on the truck, smaller inventory, etc.

    Terry repeatedly mentioned this on the web site and repeatedly mentioned that the 528MP was a perfect replacement fill valve for Toto toilets, and was made by the manufacturer of many Toto fill valves, Korky. Meanwhile, at one point, the "toto store" on the manufacturer's web site must have had 30 different fill valves listed. Toto was carrying all that inventory, and having to take the people time to help customers pick the right replacement valve for their toilet. The Toto folks are smart, and -- I am convinced that it's as a result of Terry, whose forums they and the Korky folks do read -- what they did was commission Korky to make a Toto-branded 528MP variant that would work on ANY floor-mount Toto. Because the Toto people are sticklers, and serious about saving water, what they did was to include a table that lets you set the height of the valve to exact factory specs, rather than eyeballing the level of the fill line, and a little gizmo that lets you set the refill ratio exactly-precisely to the exact percentage for your toilet, which is a little obsessive. With the 528MP, you eyeball it, and that's really good enough. And saves $10 on the price of the valve.

    Anyway, good luck! And keep us in the loop!
     
  9. Icenet

    Icenet New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hi All,
    Late follow up here. The original Toto fill valve was replaced with the TSU99A.X. The fill time improved by a minute and is now at a livable 30 seconds. Minor new problem. While "using" the toilet, there is a noticeable backflow sound prior to flushing especially with the solid stuff. I took the lid off to look inside the valve tank and did a test by inserting my hand in the bowl. I could hear a swish of water for a few seconds but saw nothing change in the valve tank. And no leaks outside the toilet. Any ideas what this is? Thanks!!
     
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    As you fill the bowl with new stuff, it displaces liquid that will run down the drain. In a quiet room, you can hear the stuff draining.

    In your toilet, the water from the bowl would/should never go back up into the tank, so it's not a surprise that you didn't see anything in the tank when you put your hand in.

    But look at the cutaway view below. When you put stuff in the bowl, the water level rises momentarily, and the excess flows over the weir and down the drain. When you flush, the bowl fills the trapway with water, which starts a siphon, which sucks all the water and waste over the weir and down the drain. The bowl then refills, and the water should shut off just as the refill water reaches the top of the weir, so it's ready to start the cycle again. (Old toilets just kept slowly pumping refill water into the bowl, and the excess would dribble over the weir until the water shut off and the bowl settled to the top of the weir.)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  11. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

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    Jun 7, 2013
    Occupation:
    computer technician
    Location:
    Arizona
    The "swish of water" may be the tube running water into the over flow tube just as you depress the handle.
     
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    How funny.
    That sound of water moving is..............you guessed it, water moving.
    Below the surface of the water in the bowl, there is a strong jet of water from the siphon jet opening. This starts the siphon that empties the bowl.
    Drop a penny in the bowl, and then flush the toilet. the penny will disappear before the the rest of the water slides down the bowl.
     
  13. Steveindanville

    Steveindanville New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Location:
    Danville, CA
    My Toto TSU53A was recently taking 2 minutes to fill so I replaced it with the 528MP. It still was almost 2 mins. Then I replaced the braided SS water hose and took a apart the new 528MP to make sure it hadn't been contaminated by the old hose. Put it back together and turned on the water and it now fills the tank in less than 20 seconds! Tank and bowl levels are perfect too. Thank you for the GREAT info, and don't forget to replace the water line hose while you're at it!
     
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Very good advice. Glad the forum was helpful!
     
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