I have a small cabin in a 12 cabin community which is spring fed (spring flow is about 5 gpm). The water flows from our spring box into a 5000 gallon storage tank. The community was built in the 50's and the water system was originally designed to work off of gravity flow alone. In the upper one third of the community, the water line is 3" diameter. For the middle elevation of the community, the diameter is 2", and for the lower third of the water line, it is 1" diameter, which all seems quite logical to me so everyone probably got about the same flow rate when their taps were open, although at different pressures, when only gravity flow is used. My cabin is about 60' below the storage tank, and I have a pressure of about 27 psig under static conditions. There is one other cabin below me, about 25' lower in elevation. They are water hogs. They installed a booster pump, and whenever their pump comes on, if I have a faucet open, my water flow stops and I hear air being sucked into the faucet. If no faucets are open in my cabin, and their booster pump comes on, I hear a bubble gurgle noise ("glug, glug, glug", like a 5 gal sparklets cold water dispenser) coming from my water heater like water is being sucked out if it and air is being sucked in to replace it. I am quite happy with my 27 psig when the neighbor's booster pump is not on, but having air and/or water sucked out of my cabin is a bit much when they put their pump on. This family has quite a few children/grandchildren visitors who will leave hose spigots on so they can play in the water. They also decided to build a pond which they sometimes fill from the community water, even though they are not suppose to. So having water and air sucked out of my cabin is a rather common occurrence. When they leave their booster pump off and just gravity flow through one of their taps (which some members of the extended family of potential visitors will do at my request), my water pressure is at about 15 psig, which I can live with. I have thought about installing a backflow preventer, but with my already low water pressure, I am afraid the additional resistance to flow that a backflow preventer would create, would lower my flow and pressure even more (maybe another 4 to 5 psig loss?). I have a couple of questions: 1) Can my water heater be damaged if water is sucked out of it? 2) Can a source of contamination be created if I happened to have a hose running in my yard and water got sucked back into the main line through it? 3) Is there something other than a backflow preventer that I could use that would open up and let air into the line if their pump creates a negative pressure in the line, something that would not be a resistance to my water flow? Sorry about such a complicated question for my first one on the forum. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Wayne
The downhill neighbor in my small cabin community is sucking water out of my cabin
- Thread starter WayneA
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
A vacuum breaker AKA vacuum relief valve.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....relief-valve-not-pressure-relief-valve.48905/
Sponsor
Paid Advertisement
Your neighbor needs a 200-300 gallon storage tank to draw water from. He is using everyone else's water line as his suction line. Instead of a vacuum breaker, use a hose connected to your faucet and drop it in the dirty dish water or something else nasty. Or at least tell them you are going to do that. Once they realize they could be poisoned that easily maybe they will get a storage tank. 
Midriller
Member
Check Valve?? or just get a bigger booster pump to suck water back from them......
Midriller
Member
I dont think threating chemical warfare is the proper tactic for this scenerio........Your neighbor needs a 200-300 gallon storage tank to draw water from. He is using everyone else's water line as his suction line. Instead of a vacuum breaker, use a hose connected to your faucet and drop it in the dirty dish water or something else nasty. Or at least tell them you are going to do that. Once they realize they could be poisoned that easily maybe they will get a storage tank.
As tempting as the chemical warfare suggestion is... hmmm .... maybe I should try the vacuum breaker option first. The typical vacuum breaker set-up that I have seen in pics online looks like it would force me to take my cabin supply line above ground into an inverted "U" with the relief valve mounted in the top upstream corner of the inverted "U", i.e., my whole cabin inlet flow would have to pass through this series of 4 right angle bends (like shown in the 1st pic below), which will further slow my flow rate down with my very low pressure circumstances I already have. Would it be possible to simply "T" into my cabin supply line underground and run a single vent line vertically above ground with a pressure relief valve sitting atop it, like shown in the 2nd picture below? That way my flow continues in a straight line with as little frictional and directional momentum disturbance loss as possible. My present supply line coming in to my cabin is 1" pex.
Is this situation feasible, and, if so, is there a specific reasonably priced vacuum relief valve someone could recommend to me for this situation? Can anyone also tell me what the ramification will be on my neighbors downhill booster pump would be if it were to start sucking on air? I would prefer to solve the problem for both of us, not start a range war by burning out his pump. Might there be any other unintended consequences for me or the mostly gravity fed community water system? Thanks All! Wayne
Is this situation feasible, and, if so, is there a specific reasonably priced vacuum relief valve someone could recommend to me for this situation? Can anyone also tell me what the ramification will be on my neighbors downhill booster pump would be if it were to start sucking on air? I would prefer to solve the problem for both of us, not start a range war by burning out his pump. Might there be any other unintended consequences for me or the mostly gravity fed community water system? Thanks All! Wayne
Also in reference to Daniel's suggestion about a check valve. Is that AKA a "backflow preventer". I have been told, maybe incorrectly, that with the very low pressures I am dealing with at my cabin, that a backflow preventer also will slow down my forward flow resulting in another possible 4 to 5 psi pressure drop. Do you guys think that is correct? While this will solve the air sucking problem, my pressure will still go to zero, yes? :-(
Reach4 - thanks and good idea. Besides protecting my water heater, my neighbors won't be able to figure out where the air is coming from if the "T" is located inside my cabin. Does that mean my "T" idea will actually work? Any suggestions on what brand/type of valve to use?
I am thinking ValveMan may be on the right track with the idea of a small storage tank, but wouldn't my neighbors need more of a Storage "bladder" instead of a rigid storage tank? I think for a rigid tank to work it would have to be open to atmosphere, and they would lose the advantage of the gravity pressure they already had going for them. The storage "bladder" would have to be able to withstand about 40 to 45 psig, which is probably about the pressure they have at the bottom of the hill. Does such a thing exist?
I would be thinking something like a Watts 3/4" LFN36M1 or 1" LF288AM4 . It is not clear to me if there is a difference between a "vacuum relief valve" and an "anti-siphon vacuum breaker". Maybe the "vacuum relief valve" is more for indoor use?
I am not a plumber.
Last edited:
LOL! I wasn't thinking of anything dangerous. But if I couldn't convince my neighbor to quit sucking all the water out of my lines, they would probably see some purple food coloring coming out their faucets. Might make a point as to what could happen if I left my spray wand laying in a sink full of dirty water.
A vacuum breaker will just let their booster pump draw in air. Using a check valve on your water line would keep them from sucking air from your faucets. But you would still be out of water, and the next person down the line would have the water sucked out of their faucets.
They don't need a very large storage tank as long as the community water system can supply water as fast or almost as fast as the water is being used. It is more of an air gap between the pump and suction line. And since they already have a booster pump, drawing from the storage tank won't make much difference compared to drawing from the community water line which is already at low pressure. I think a 200 gallon storage tank would be plenty of buffer for the water line, and it is the only way I see to solve this problem.
They don't have gravity pressure. They are already sucking on that line. Yes they need a storage tank with a vent to atmosphere, as a bladder tank will not work as a storage tank.
While Wayne has 27 psi when the valley folk are not using water, his water pressure drops to maybe 8 psi at times. He wants to avoid a check valve that reduces that pressure by another 2 psi.
I don't think that helps Wayne, unless the flow into that storage tank was limited.
WorthFlorida
Clinical Trail 5th session completed 4/24/24.
It's quite a dilemma you're in. First get your 10 other neighbors and this last guy causing your problem and talk it over that your water system is shared source, etc, etc... and the system has worked fine for the last 70 years until this booster pump was installed. As far as the pond is concerned, does your local city or county allow man made ponds? Would there be any locals ordinances for this type of water system?
You didn't say but are you connected to the 1" or the 2" feed? If you on the 1" is it possible to extend the 2" to your connection before going to 1"? Another is as Valveman suggested for the neighbor but for you to install a storage tank on your property and your own pump and pressure tank. It sucks that you have to spend your money but any water contamination (air getting sucked in) will also affect your home. All spigots must have a vacuum break with or without this problem.
Do install a backflow preventer, water contamination can be deadly. However, your suggested T type connection will not do what you want. These use atmospheric pressure and when the pressure drops enough on the output side the atmospheric pressure pushed down on the diaphragm to allow air to enter the output line to equalize the pressure but closes off the pipe from the input.
He wants to prevent a vacuum from causing his water heater to have a collapsed tank ( "implode").
The device you propose includes a check valve. The check valve has a pressure drop.
Last edited:
Similar threads
