Submersible stuck in 4 inch steel Case

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Kevin in MD

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Hi folks, I am getting to the end of my rope (literally) on this one! I am trying to help a friend with a stuck S.S. submersible in a 4 inch steel casing. Here are the numbers: Pump is down 61 feet with nylon pull rope and 1 inch pvc pipe which we know is somewhat brittle. It does have an arrestor. Well has been dormant for 2.5 years as the owner died. Pump has been down about 30 years. I made a 3-7/8 cutter and scraped the walls of the case down to 60 foot and then blew with 400 scfm to clean the well down to the pump (I have done this before on another well). From there we had 65 ft of 1/2 inch steel pipe and pounded on the pump until we mushroomed the pipe end. Nothing is moving! Any suggestions on the next step-bigger pipe or chemical?? If chemical, how much, what kind, and how to apply?? Should the case be empty of water when applying chemical or does it matter?? I dont think the water has any other issues other than high iron content.
 

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Probably not going to get it out. Try breaking off the pipe, wire, and rope. Then use something like 2" pipe to push with and get some real weight or a bigger hammer. I know where there is a well with 5 pumps pushed to the bottom and a new one set just above those.
 

Reach4

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If you get that old pump pounded down, consider a 3 inch Grundfos SQ pump, with a flow inducer, to be sure the new one does not get stuck.
 

RSole

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Probably not going to get it out. Try breaking off the pipe, wire, and rope. Then use something like 2" pipe to push with and get some real weight or a bigger hammer. I know where there is a well with 5 pumps pushed to the bottom and a new one set just above those.
That seems very incredible. How could people make the same mistake in installing a pump to the point where six have to be in the well because the previous five could not be pulled out? All five would have to have had their down pipes dislodged from the pumps, along with the wiring and any safety ropes. There would have been a mess of wiring, ropes, and possibly piping cluttering the well. I don't believe it.
 

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That seems very incredible. How could people make the same mistake in installing a pump to the point where six have to be in the well because the previous five could not be pulled out? All five would have to have had their down pipes dislodged from the pumps, along with the wiring and any safety ropes. There would have been a mess of wiring, ropes, and possibly piping cluttering the well. I don't believe it.
I think I been called a liar. Lol! I have been doing this a looong time. I could tell some stories that would be hard to believe, but that one is pretty common. The well with 5 pumps pushed to the bottom is 1200' deep with 7" steel casing, pumping salt water for an oil company. With a 6" diameter pump in 7" steel casing there isn't much room to start with. A little rust from the salt water on the steel casing in a not so perfectly straight well will grab the pump. Set at 800' on 2 3/8 J55 tubing, the connection to the pump is the thinnest metal and weakest link. The change over connector also steel will rust through in short order. The wire usually comes up with the pipe as it is banded with 3/4" SS bands. But if all I get out is the pipe, I use a spear with an offset hook and spin it around and around until I get the wire tangled enough to come out with the fishing string. Then with 800' of heavy J55 tubing it doesn't take very many tries until it pounds the pump loose and it falls to the bottom of the 1200' well. Just not enough room between the 6" pump and 7" casing to use an over shot. With 400' of rat hole below the pump there is plenty of room for a few 10' long pumps. It is rare for one of these pump to last more than a year or two anyway, so they just started replacing the pump every year whether it needed it or not,

Lots of house wells done the same way. Small steel casing is notorious for grabbing a pump. In most cases people can't afford a new well, don't have the room, or can't get a permit, so they make do with what they have. Even if the pump won't go down any further, you can just cut the pipe off and set the new pump just above the old one.

Now for a story you won't believe, I bailed out a well that was left open for years. Made over 50' of new hole cleaning it out. Mostly bones, skulls, teeth, and fur from rabbits and animals that had fallen in over the years. One of the most disgusting jobs I ever had to do. Lol!
 

RSole

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Silly me. The posts here are mainly about residential wells, then you drop a detail-lacking post about 6 pumps in a well without mentioning a couple of "minor" details like that it was an industrial well almost a quarter-mile deep in salt water. Of course I doubted it. Who knows if that other story about bones, teeth, skulls, etc is true. You say I won't believe it, okay, I don't.
 

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There are plenty of residential wells that are 1200' deep or more as well, and I have done all kinds. It is all relevant experience either way. Have a nice day!
 

RSole

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There are plenty of residential wells that are 1200' deep or more as well, and I have done all kinds. It is all relevant experience either way. Have a nice day!
I'm sure there are, but the example you referred to with six pumps in it was not a residential well. A commercial operator might not care whether there is one pump or twelve in a deep well. I'm suggesting that when you toss out extreme case examples that you might want to include some vital details so the reader has a bit of perspective. You seem to have a habit of excluding details for dramatic effect, you've seen it all...
 
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Valveman

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Oh, I can give you details if you want to read pages and pages. But I try to hit the high spots unless more detail is needed. Funny, some people say I don't give enough detail while others think it is way too detailed. Can't win for losing. But I tend to be more helpful to people who don't insult me.
 

RSole

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Oh, I can give you details if you want to read pages and pages. But I try to hit the high spots unless more detail is needed. Funny, some people say I don't give enough detail while others think it is way too detailed. Can't win for losing. But I tend to be more helpful to people who don't insult me.
Yes, please send me those pages and pages. I like to read and I have the time. Thank you for offering the literature, I eagerly await it. You're the best! I apologize for appearing to insult you. I will try to be more tactful in my criticisms.
 

RSole

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Oh, I can give you details if you want to read pages and pages. But I try to hit the high spots unless more detail is needed. Funny, some people say I don't give enough detail while others think it is way too detailed. Can't win for losing. But I tend to be more helpful to people who don't insult me.
Still awaiting the pages and pages of detail..... (crickets in background...)
 

Valveman

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I could write pages and pages on having more than one pump in a well, and how to get out stuck pumps. But again, I am not motivated to do so for someone who keeps insulting me. Just for a teaser, here is one where I have two pumps working in the same well. Good luck with your project.


walla_walla_web_105_2_598.jpg
 

RSole

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Geez RSole, any particular reason you have the need to troll on this site? You carry your name well!
Sorry, but I cannot change my name. I have made some positive comments on this site, in my opinion, but when I see someone making a claim that sounds possibly doubtful, I ask for proof. Also, is promoting sales of one's own products not against the terms of this site? At least one poster seems to have special privileges.
 

Chucky_ott

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Well, if it bothers you so much, you can always put someone on ignore. And if Terry Love objects to Valveman's posts about his product, he would have told him by now. Personally, I find it to be educational.

Posting something not relevant to the OP's question is hardly helpful to him or her, and a turn off to others who visit the site. Not to mention that it gives us Ontarians a bad name. Just sayin'.

Hopefully you stay on and continue to contribute useful advice. I try to sometimes, and no one flames me for it on this site.
 

Valveman

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I never suggest a Cycle Stop Valve unless it will solve the poster's problem. However, cycling is the cause of nearly all pump system problems. I did not mention it in your case because it wasn't realivent. But I have 55 years experience with drilling and pumps and the stories you think sound doubtful are just everyday occurances for me. I gave you my best advice. I am sorry you didn't like it but I doubt I'm wrong. If I thought there was a better way I would have written pages and pages to explain it if needed.
 

RSole

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Well, if it bothers you so much, you can always put someone on ignore. And if Terry Love objects to Valveman's posts about his product, he would have told him by now. Personally, I find it to be educational.

Posting something not relevant to the OP's question is hardly helpful to him or her, and a turn off to others who visit the site. Not to mention that it gives us Ontarians a bad name. Just sayin'.

Hopefully you stay on and continue to contribute useful advice. I try to sometimes, and no one flames me for it on this site.
I will stay on, as you hope, and will continue to contribute to the site. As for giving Ontarians a bad name, c'mon, there are bad apples in every province and state, not that I am one of them of course.

I have a project this summer involving installing a hand-operated Simple Pump along side my submersible pump 60 feet down.
I regretfully, in hindsight, installed circular stand-offs every 15 feet so the pump will have to come out. When I installed the sub-pump, I attached a poly rope, AND a stainless-steel safety cable so I should not have a stuck pump. The biggest hassle is having to disinfect everything before lowering into the well again.
 

RSole

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That's a question for a new post. And who knows, maybe you'll find out that you need a CSV :p
I had one and returned it. Useless. No moving parts, just an in-line restriction. It was not the expensive one with a screw on top and spring inside or whatever.
I'll have to search the site to see if a thread already exists for my project before duplicating one.
 
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