Slip joint with ABS DWV pipe between joists - Kosher?

[SteveMcqueen]

Hi,

First post. I've got a question about an ABS DWV repair I'm attempting. I have leaky joint on the right side of the tee in the attached photo. You can see where someone (not me) attempted a repair with what looks like PVC cement. Anyway it didn't work. Rather than attempt another chemical fix my plan is to cut out the tee and put a new one in.

Here's my question. For the 1.5" ABS downpipe coming from a second floor sink drain, can I use a slip joint fitting there? I have 2" all hub tee and would like to use a 2" spigot x slip joint fitting for the downpipe. If it is kosher do I want a 2" spigot x 2" slip joint fitting, or a 2" spigot x 1.5" slip joint fitting?

Something like this...

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Charlotte-...sv7dWp3JIucyMup6MYYaAv-cEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Sorry if I don't have all the plumbing jargon correct.

Any other repair advice for this would be greatly appreciated. My plan is to recouple the 2" horizontal lines is to use a flexible coupler on one side and a conventional ABS coupler on the other.

 

[SteveMcqueen]

This photo might be better to see what's going on up in there.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[wwhitney]

No slip joints behind drywall (not sure if that's explicitly spelled out in the plumbing code, but it's certainly best practice.) What you want to do is use (2) banded 2" plastic to plastic couplings, either Fernco Proflex 3000-22, Mission CP-200, or equivalent, and a 1-1/2" ABS solvent weld or banded coupling.

Further details available if required.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[John Gayewski]

No slip joints behind drywall (not sure if that's explicitly spelled out in the plumbing code, but it's certainly best practice.) What you want to do is use (2) banded 2" plastic to plastic couplings, either Fernco Proflex 3000-22, Mission CP-200, or equivalent, and a 1-1/2" ABS solvent weld or banded coupling.

Further details available if required.

Cheers, Wayne

It is spelled out in chapter 3 fixture's. (I think)

 

[wwhitney]

Ah, thanks for the suggestion of where to look, it's Chapter 4 (Fixtures) in both the IPC and the UPC. IPC 405.9 and UPC 402.10. Slip joint connections require a minimum 12"x12" access.

So in theory you could put a permanent access panel in your ceiling and use a slip joint connection. Except I'm only aware of them in tubular sizes (OD = nominal size), not in Schedule 40 sizes (OD ~ nominal + 3/8" to 1/2").

Cheers, Wayne

 

[SteveMcqueen]

Yeah, I googled all day long and didn't turn up any info on it. It certainly didn't feel right. I guess it's the lazy man in me that wanted to use it.

Chapter 3 of what document?

@wwhitney - are you recommending the banded couplings all around or for just the 1.5" downpipe?

 

[wwhitney]

For you, see https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-plumbing-code-2019 in particular https://up.codes/viewer/california/...plumbing-fixtures-and-fixture-fittings#402.10

As I stated, I'm proposing a 2" banded coupling on the 2" inlet, a 2" banded coupling on the 2" outlet, and a 1.5" glue joint or banded coupling on the side inlet. I can expand on how to execute that if it's not clear.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[SteveMcqueen]

Lazy, meaning, in case I screw up the cut length calculations.

 

[SteveMcqueen]

For you, see https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-plumbing-code-2019 in particular https://up.codes/viewer/california/...plumbing-fixtures-and-fixture-fittings#402.10

As I stated, I'm proposing a 2" banded coupling on the 2" inlet, a 2" banded coupling on the 2" outlet, and a 1.5" glue joint or banded coupling on the side inlet. I can expand on how to execute that if it's not clear.

Cheers, Wayne

No, that makes sense. I think you correctly read my mind that I'm having some difficulty picturing how to maneuver the new tee assembly in to place. With your suggestions, I can see it being easier.

There's not going to be a lot of wiggle room on the existing ABS pipes.

 

[SteveMcqueen]

Thanks for the advice fellas. Another trip to the home store tomorrow I guess.

 

[John Gayewski]

Ah, thanks for the suggestion of where to look, it's Chapter 4 (Fixtures) in both the IPC and the UPC. IPC 405.9 and UPC 402.10. Slip joint connections require a minimum 12"x12" access.

So in theory you could put a permanent access panel in your ceiling and use a slip joint connection. Except I'm only aware of them in tubular sizes (OD = nominal size), not in Schedule 40 sizes (OD ~ nominal + 3/8" to 1/2").

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah chapter 4. But somewhere else it says you can't have them horizontal except for on the trap adapter. After the weir. Or it says you can only have one horizontal slip joint connection. And I think it's only in the context of a sink.

 

[wwhitney]

Well for the UPC, 1003.2 says "A maximum of one approved slip joint fitting shall be permitted to be used on the outlet side of a trap, and no tubing trap shall be installed without a listed tubing trap adapter."

https://up.codes/viewer/california/ca-plumbing-code-2019/chapter/10/traps-and-interceptors#1003.2

IPC 1002.2 just says "Slip joints shall be made with an approved elastomeric gasket and shall be installed only on the trap inlet, trap outlet and within the trap seal."

https://up.codes/viewer/colorado/ipc-2018/chapter/10/traps-interceptors-and-separators#1002.2

Cheers, Wayne

 

[SteveMcqueen]

Another question just popped in to my head (and this is what steered me to the slip joint idea earlier.)

With regard to the downpipe (not sure if this is official plumbing jargon...) when I cut the existing tee out, I lose the flange depth length on the downpipe. Now if I use the exact same tee part (from Charlotte P&F) I don't have the length on the downpipe to get it glued on to the new part, and keep the 2" horizontal pipes aligned with the 2" hubs.

How do I solve this?

The 2" all hub tee from Nibco (that I bought today) has a greater/longer dimension there that may help but then I need a spigot x hub adapter. I might check whether or not the 2x2x1.5 tee form Nibco would be longer than the Charlotte part.

 

[wwhitney]

That's why you're going to use a new coupling on the 1-1/2" side, either a glue joint coupling or another banded coupling. [Glue joint there means you get one shot; banded coupling is more forgiving if you have sufficient access to tighten it.] You're going to glue a short pipe segment into each hub of the new 2x2x1-1/2 combo.

For the 2" run, start by gluing in ~2" long equal length 2" pipe segments into the 2" hubs on the new combo (you need a minimum of 1" of glue-free pipe sticking out, and the hub depth is 3/4"). Then measure the exact length of exposed pipe on each end, add 3/16", and cut the 2" drain exactly that length from the existing hubs. That's 1/8" for the internal rubber stop on the couplings, and 1/16" to get some play and ability to insert the new piece between two rubber couplings (which will have the free open end rolled back over itself).

On the 1-1/2" side, start by cutting out the combo flush with the hub, then after test fitting your new combo between the rubber couplings, figure out how much of the ~ 3" left you need to cut back, put the coupling on the end, and glue the proper length 1-1/2" pipe into the new combo.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[SteveMcqueen]

Or is there a more appropriate tee/wye that I should be considering for this repair?

You mentioned a 1.5" flex coupling for the downpipe. Would I just add short length of pipe out of the tee hub to make that connection?

 

[SteveMcqueen]

That's why you're going to use a new coupling on the 1-1/2" side, either a glue joint coupling or another banded coupling. [Glue joint there means you get one shot; banded coupling is more forgiving if you have sufficient access to tighten it.] You're going to glue a short pipe segment into each hub of the new 2x2x1-1/2 combo.

For the 2" run, start by gluing in ~2" long equal length 2" pipe segments into the 2" hubs on the new combo (you need a minimum of 1" of glue-free pipe sticking out, and the hub depth is 3/4"). Then measure the exact length of exposed pipe on each end, add 3/16", and cut the 2" drain exactly that length from the existing hubs. That's 1/8" for the internal rubber stop on the couplings, and 1/16" to get some play and ability to insert the new piece between two rubber couplings (which will have the free open end rolled back over itself).

On the 1-1/2" side, start by cutting out the combo flush with the hub, then after test fitting your new combo between the rubber couplings, figure out how much of the ~ 3" left you need to cut back, put the coupling on the end, and glue the proper length 1-1/2" pipe into the new combo.

Cheers, Wayne

Got it! Thanks.

 

[Jeff H Young]

replace combi use 3 shielded couplings

 

[Jeff H Young]

good luck Steve it should go pretty smooth just make nice straight cuts !

 

[SteveMcqueen]

good luck steve it should go pretty smooth just make nice straight cuts !

Thanks for the tip! (I figured straight was best given the design of these couplings.)

Only had to go to 2 HDs and 1 Lowes!

The couplings seems to be in short supply both online and in the stores. Around here anyway.

 

[SteveMcqueen]

Thanks again for the advice everyone. I think I got it right.

Do you think I need to add support/strap the right side after the coupling? It's about a 2-3' run to a 90° elbow and vertical drop to the main drain line in the slab.