Sani Seal with Offset Flange 1/4" Above Tile Floor

[Mike Jarosz]

Hello,

I am working on a bathroom renovation on a concrete slab. Toilet piping is finished, but still have access as the area has not been backfilled yet. I am trying to decide whether or not to install the my Oatey pvc 4x3 offset flange level with the tile, or on top of it. I have not cut down the toilet pipe yet, which is currently sticking up about 2 inches above ground level. I have read the discussions about this topic, however couldn't find the answer to the questions below. I would like to use the Sani Seal ring, however on the package it says "Gasket will not have room to compress if top of flange is 1/4" or more above finished floor."

Question #1:
The top of the offset flange measures about 1/4" think, so if it sits on top of the tile, this would mean that the top of the flange is 1/4" above the finished floor. Am I correct in thinking that the Sani Seal may be designed for when the top of a flange is flush with the tile or below it?

Question #2:
If I should just stick with a regular wax ring, do I need the type with the attached flange, since I am working with an offset flange? I'm not sure if the attached flange would seat correctly since it may hit the angled pipe inside the offset flange. I don't want to cause any more obstruction seeing that I had to use an offset flange and already worried about that alone.

Question #3:
What is the correct way to secure the offset flange? Since I still haven't not poured concrete yet, can I insert threaded rod into the wet cement, so that I don't have to drill in bolts later?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Reach4]

I would like to use the Sani Seal ring, however on the package it says "Gasket will not have room to compress if top of flange is 1/4" or more above finished floor."

Are you sure? http://saniseal.com/sani-seal-installation/ has a video. Your bold statement contradicts 0:34 into the video where it says 3/8 is the maximum. So those are contradictory.

Saniseal does not put written instructions on their website as far as I can find. That would be compatible with the marketing people wanting to hide info. I think I remember they had directions posted in the past. The only other explanation I could come up with was that was their lawyers called for the removal. Perhaps there is a different explanation.

Regarding offset flanges, http://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...inage/closet-flanges---brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=12 says

What makes these [offset ] flanges unique is their full flow capacity. A 3" ball will pass through either unobstructed.​

They also have stainless steel rings, which I think is a plus.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mike Jarosz]

Are you sure? http://saniseal.com/sani-seal-installation/ has a video. Your bold statement contradicts 0:34 into the video where it says 3/8 is the maximum. So those are contradictory.

Yes, take a look at the attached pic from the packaging. It is contradictory I agree. Makes me think maybe it was 3/8" but they changed it to 1/4" due to some customer feedback.

 

[Reach4]

A more complex instruction would to have a minimum for the distance pointed to by the green arrow below. However few are going to know what dimension that is going to be.

I would think that most closet flanges that are installed in the recommended way (atop the floor surface) would be 1/4 inches above the floor surface, no?

Also check out
Korky WaxFree and
Fluidmaster Better Than Wax

 

[Jadnashua]

First off, try to avoid any toilet flange that has an all plastic design. Unless made of CI, all of the others that use a metal anchoring ring tend to be about 1/4" thick or less. What you really want is one that has the ring made out of stainless steel. What you need to be extremely careful about, though, is to ensure that the riser pipe is perfectly plumb, otherwise, especially if embedded in concrete, you won't be able to get the toilet flange to install level without a gap...that could be a major problem not only for the seal, but for the toilet fitting as well.

It would be a lousy marketing move to make a product like the SaniSeal that does not work with any properly installed toilet flange. I can't say that they did or not, but it would not be smart. Certainly, there are a huge number of installs where the flange is installed on the subflooring, and not where they are designed to be - on top of it, but it's certainly possible.

Installing a wax or waxless seal may not work when using an offset toilet flange at all. Some of them are oval verses a round sealing opening, and, on some waxless seals, they use what amounts to a funnel that projects down into the flange to make the seal...won't work if it is offset.

I have to question, though, why you need an offset if you've dug up the area and are installing new piping? Can't you get things positioned where you don't need an offset flange?

 

[Reach4]

I measured a totally different flange that had a stainless steel ring. I measured 0.14 inches for the measurement under discussion. (I noted in that thread that it was hard to measure). That may be typical of stainless (maybe painted steel even) rings. So a 1/4 inch limit, should not be a problem anyway if using a flange with a metal ring.

 

[Mike Jarosz]

Thank you for the replies. I have the Soux Chief offset flange with SS ring so I should be good there. I agree that 1/4" seems like a common height for the top part of the flange, I was just a little puzzled why Sani-seal gives that dimension on their packaging as the maximum allow height.

As for the current piping in the ground, I do have access, but can't see a viable way to reroute the pipe to achieve a 12" rough. There is a pipe I can cut but there is only about 1/4" visible between two hubs and it wouldn't leave me enough room to get a coupler on there. I'll report back when I get the sani-seal on there after I lay the floor down. Thanks again!

 

[Jadnashua]

That 1/4" is between the top of the flange and the bottom of the seal seating area on the toilet. There is not real standard on how deep that recess is, but practical functionality would require it to normally work with a standard thickness wax ring when the flange was installed as designed. With wax, if you can set the toilet down on top of the toilet flange dry (no seal), and it doesn't rock, you should be able to then install it with a standard wax ring. Certainly, there are more limits on how much you can compress a foam one. To determine what's going to work, you'd need to measure your toilet, not necessarily the actual height of the toilet flange's thickness. Put a straightedge across the bottom of the toilet, then measure the depth of where the wax goes.

 

[Reach4]

That 1/4" is between the top of the flange and the bottom of the seal seating area on the toilet.

What are you pointing to, or what are you referring to?

 

[Jadnashua]

The instructions talk about 1/4" above the finished floor, the picture (more correctly) shows 1/4" between the top of the flange and the space in the toilet where the seal must go. That dimension will vary across brands and models. But, any toilet (and seal for them!) should allow for any 'normal' installation.