Running copper pipe around obstacle

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by PAB, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. PAB

    PAB New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2021
    Location:
    Detroit
    The pic will show hot and cold copper pipe running up and then bending at 90 degrees. I not only want to keep water supply where it currently goes, but need to add it above for both pipes.
    i thought about using a T fitting but the pipe on the right be able to do the 90 degree bend anymore (would hit into the pipe on the left).
    the vent makes it a more cramped.
    any ideas how to do this? perhaps a T fitting for both, and then using a few elbows for the right pipe to go around the left pipe?
    hope this makes sense.
    thanks.
    ps and no, i didn't do the boring into the floor plate for the vent!
     

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  2. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2019
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    For the left/lower run, you could cut a tee into the vertical segment with the branch pointing towards the camera, then an immediate elbow to turn upward. That might be a bit tricky because of the points of fixity and the obstacles; you could remove a segment and make the final reconnection with a repair coupling, after adding the tee.

    For the right/upper run, you could do the same, or try to replace the elbow with a tee. Depending on whether you prefer your new runs to be in the same plane parallel to the wall surface, or offset for aid in downstream crossing.

    As for the bottom plate, the hole in it is not a structural issue, any load is coming down on the studs. But the gaps should be fireblocked, e.g. with an appropriate foam.

    Cheers, Wayne
     
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  4. PAB

    PAB New Member

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    Thanks Wayne!

    a couple questions:
    1. just want to confirm: you're saying that the t should be pointed to the camera, and on that t i should put an elbow, and then the vertical pipe attaches to that elbow? that would mean that the horizontal pipes will attach to the top part of the t-fitting, if i'm understanding this correctly.

    2. somewhat unrelated, you indicate that the big notch cut into the the floor plate for the vent is not a problem, structurally. it's not a load load bearing wall and i've looked to find rules regarding cutting into the bottom and top plates for non-load bearing walls and have had difficulty (easy to find rules for studs and joists, but not the plates).

    but if it isn't a problem, could i do the same to the top plate? right now, there's a bulk-head to allow the vent to come out and not cut too much out of the top plate. the top plate is two laminated 2x6 laminated with a 2x8. i can post a pic if that helps. otherwise, hopefully this makes sense.

    thanks!!!
     
  5. wwhitney

    wwhitney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    1) Don't quite follow the question. Starting from the floor plate going up, you would have your existing vertical copper, then a tee fitting with the straight path vertical and the branch pointing out of the of the wall, then more existing vertical copper, then the existing elbow.

    Except that you couldn't actually install that tee, unless you could pull apart the two cut ends of the existing vertical segment at least 1". Which might be possible depending on what the horizontals do out side the picture. (but I think the holes in the studs are too tight to get the requisite play). So instead you may end up with a repair coupling below the tee.

    2) A picture would be required. A few general comments: top plates are more important than bottom plates, as they help spread any vertical load to the studs (that's why they are often doubled). Non load bearing walls can be hacked up more, to a point.

    Regarding top plates, I draw your attention to IRC R602.6.1, which only applies to load bearing walls:

    https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-residential-code-2015/chapter/6/wall-construction#R602.6.1

    Cheers, Wayne
     
  6. fitter30

    fitter30 Well-Known Member

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    Retired service tech
    Location:
    Peace valley missouri
    Just like other said. Tees and street ells.
     

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  7. PAB

    PAB New Member

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    thanks for the picture. also, thanks for link for the code for the top plate. even though it is for load bearing walls, it shows that i can cut a good sized notch out of the top plate if i use a specific type of galvanized metal strap between the two sides.
     
  8. PAB

    PAB New Member

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    Jan 15, 2021
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    Detroit
    quick question - do i need a water hammer arrestor where the hot and cold meet the shower valve?
    i was going to use an elbow to connect the hot and cold to the inlets of the shower valve, but i'm wondering if i need a T and have a hammer arrestor at the top end of the T?
    My copper pipe is 3/4" until the vertical pipes to the shower valve, which are 1/2".
     
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Only quick closing valves need hammer arrestors.
    Dishwasher
    Washer
    Icemaker

    That being said, sometimes there are valves that close quick for no good reason. The shower isn't one of them, but sometimes a toilet fill valve. Though I have never seen anyone rough a hammer arrestor for a toilet. Most "are" slow closing.
     
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  10. PAB

    PAB New Member

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    Thanks Terry! your quick response has just saved me a lot of time doing research. Appreciate it!
     
  11. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Occupation:
    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
    Location:
    New York
    400 A fluidmaster is quick closing if the pressure is high it can cause hydraulic shock
     
  12. PAB

    PAB New Member

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    Jan 15, 2021
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    Detroit
    Probably the worst soldering job known to man, but it's holding and has been for over a week (cold) and a few days (hot). Thanks everyone for your help on this. Here are a few pics.
     

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    wwhitney likes this.
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Every once in awhile, you'll find a shower valve that calls for the installation of hammer arrestors. But, since they do wear out, it also would then require an access panel. The majority of valves don't need them. And, as was said, because higher pressure makes the water move faster, any valve that can shut off quickly is more likely to have water hammering action.
     
  14. PAB

    PAB New Member

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    Jan 15, 2021
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    Detroit
    I was up in the bathroom (2nd floor) when clothes were put in the wash machine (basement). Everytime the washer would turn on, there'd be a hammer type noise in the new plumbing in the bathroom. Any idea what is happening here? The pipes for the washer are close in the same area of the house, but two floors down.
    i'd prefer not to have to do more plumbing with this (given my great skill at it!), but certainly don't want to have an issue going forward.
    thanks.
     
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Water hammer impacts can resonate throughout the plumbing in the house. The best thing it to try to stop them at their source. That means an arrestor as close to the offending valve as possible. I put some on my washing machine. Many put them at the shutoff valve on the wall, but it's better as close to the internal shutoff as possible.

    Buy a pair, install them on your WM, and see if that solves your problem. These work well Oatey Quiet Pipes 3/4 in. x 3/4 in. CPVC Compatible Copper Sweat Connection Washing Machine Water Hammer Arrester-38600 - The Home Depot
     
  16. PAB

    PAB New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2021
    Location:
    Detroit
    Thanks Jadnashua. I however did some more testing and found out that the noise happens whenever hot water is turned on anywhere in the house. cold water is not a problem. i've attached a link to a video. you'll hear at first cold water turning on and then off (a couple times). then hot on and off, and repeated with hot.
    any idea what is happening here? Here's the link to the video.
    https://flic.kr/p/2kUADDq
     
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