Resin in backwash?

[Kamisn]

Hi there, I have a 3 years old water softener withe 4 button clack valve, Vortex bottom tank (no gravel) and 1.5 cubic foot of resin. The system regenerated two nights ago and today I noticed where the drain line for backwash drains there was some amount of resin accumulated, I would say half a cup to 3/4.

Does anyone know why?

 

[Reach4]

Are the resin beads washed that out nice and round and firm, or are they broken pieces?

If normal resin is washing out of the drain line, the backwash rate may be too high. A top basket would normally catch those anyway, so you may not have a top basket. The top basket is mainly a failsafe.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Kamisn]

Are the resin beads washed that out nice and round and firm, or are they broken pieces?

If normal resin is washing out of the drain line, the backwash rate may be too high. A top basket would normally catch those anyway, so you may not have a top basket. The top basket is mainly a failsafe.

They look round and fine to me. I went back and checked again, actually there has been quite amount of resin loss, here in Texas they leave the backwash drain line to drain by the curb and the street. When I shined the flashlight just now, all along the street curb I could see little beads of resin shining.

I have not changed any of the settings since the fine tuning from the initial install. I am not sure about top basket, if there is any, shall I open the valve and inspect that?

Is there any chance any of this resin gets to my plumbing system?

 

[Reach4]

A 10 inch diameter tank normally backwashes as at about 2.4 gpm. To check for a top basket, you would need to lift the valve. I think top baskets did not use to be the norm.

Would it be convenient to measure how long your drain line takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket? And what diameter is your tank? There is a flow regulator that is supposed to set the backflow rate. It could have a problem, or the wrong one might be there.

Is there any chance any of this resin gets to my plumbing system?

If the input and output are not reversed, and the vortech tank has not failed, no. The resin in the drain is from backwash. In service, the flow is down through the resin, and then up the distributor tube.

 

[Kamisn]

A 10 inch diameter tank normally backwashes as at about 2.4 gpm. To check for a top basket, you would need to lift the valve. I think top baskets did not use to be the norm.

Would it be convenient to measure how long your drain line takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket? And what diameter is your tank? There is a flow regulator that is supposed to set the backflow rate. It could have a problem, or the wrong one might be there.



If the input and output are not reversed, and the vortech tank has not failed, no. The resin in the drain is from backwash. In service, the flow is down through the resin, and then up the distributor tube.

Tank Measures at roughly 10" diameter and 54" tall from the ground to the top where the valve connects. I need to find a way to connect a hose to the drain to empty in a bucket, the drain line is buried in ground.

The Backwash orifice was sent to me by someone in this group back in 2018 as my installer installed a wrong one. The orifice has 25 and 027 markings on it (attached photo). It also seems intact and without any sign of damage to me.

 

[Reach4]

The Backwash orifice was sent to me by someone in this group back in 2018 as my installer installed a wrong one.

Can you fill a 5-gallon bucket with the drain during backwash?

 

[Kamisn]

Can you fill a 5-gallon bucket with the drain during backwash?

I will do that, I need first buy some sort of hose that I can hook up to the in ground drain line.

 

[Reach4]

One more thing... What if you are using fine mesh resin, but things are set up for regular-size resin. Measuring the resin balls is harder than measuring most things. A device called an optical comparitor would be the tool of choice, but there would be alternatives. Most people could not carry out such a measurement.

Note that regular size resin is smaller than I had expected.

Fine mesh resin does not call for as much backwash rate.

 

[ditttohead]

Vortech tanks typically get a much smaller DLFC button (15-20%). It is common for the Clack valve to lose resin with the 2.7 in a 10" tank. The Fleck is typically supplied with a 2.4 and they do not have this issue. It has more to do with water temperature than anything else. Cold water is more dense and therefore lifts the resin more than warmer water. The best way to think about it is what is water at 31F? Extremely dense... what is it at 213F, not very dense, anything in between... You need to remove the valve, inspect the resin level, check to make sure you have a top screen, and I would reduce the DLFC button to around 2 GPM.

 

[Reach4]

Even the coldest part of Texas has fairly warm ground water.
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/heat-recovery-performance/groundwater-temperature-map.php

 

[ditttohead]

True, but... this chart is a guideline. Some areas have some really cold ground water... always best to test the temperature. Many companies do not install a top screen in their residential softeners in order to save $1... The top screen also acts as a diffuser.

 

[Kamisn]

We had a freezing temperature on Monday morning but the regeneration occurred the day before that. I am very suspicious that the top screen has failed and caused the resin loss. combination of that and larger DLFC probably caused the resin loss. I am very OCD on my appliances and I am sure I have not seen this to occur over the past three years and this is the only time.

On the bucket test, what are we looking to achieve? Shall I stay under certain time to fill the bucket? If so, what duration are we talking about?

 

[Reach4]

On the bucket test, what are we looking to achieve? Shall I stay under certain time to fill the bucket? If so, what duration are we talking about?

The purpose is to find out how many gpm you are actually backwashing at. A high number could explain beads washing up.

formula is 300/(seconds to fill bucket) = gpm

If the tank is almond-color, you can shine a bright flashlight through in the dark, and see how much bed expansion you get during backwash.

 

[ditttohead]

For decades I have noticed this issue with the Clack on 10" tanks with or without a top screen. This is the only one that I have seen it consistently occur. Low resin levels (sometimes a near empty tank). When I worked the field, it was rare but common enough that it was not "surprising". The 2.7 button is the common factor. Replacing it with the next size down always corrects this issue. That being said, it usually takes years to occur.

 

[Kamisn]

The purpose is to find out how many gpm you are actually backwashing at. A high number could explain beads washing up.

formula is 300/(seconds to fill bucket) = gpm

If the tank is almond-color, you can shine a bright flashlight through in the dark, and see how much bed expansion you get during backwash.

Thanks for the formula. The tank unfortunately is black.

 

[Kamisn]

For decades I have noticed this issue with the Clack on 10" tanks with or without a top screen. This is the only one that I have seen it consistently occur. Low resin levels (sometimes a near empty tank). When I worked the field, it was rare but common enough that it was not "surprising". The 2.7 button is the common factor. Replacing it with the next size down always corrects this issue. That being said, it usually takes years to occur.

Interesting. Once I get to check it then need to get those parts replaced, also need to know how much resin loss we had so far. My installer at the time told me he put 1.5 ft of resin.

 

[Bannerman]

1.5 cubic feet of resin in a 10" X 54" tank will fill to approx 2/3 of the tank height.

 

[Kamisn]

OK! Here are my findings:

1. On average it took 2-2:15 minutes to fill the 5 Gal bucket (Per above formula that makes it 2.22-2.5 gpm if my math is correct).
2. There was some resin residue in the bucket after each backwash, maybe 3-4 TSB, which kept lessen every backwash I measured, I ran the backwash at least 5 times to fill the bucket 5 times.
3. The Clack valve (I forgot to mention my system has Watts branding on it) does have basket and basket ant fittings looks intact (PictureBelow)
   
   

amount of resin is at above 2/3 of the tank level

At this point I am not sure what is next, Its probably what dittoed has suggested?

 

[ditttohead]

That is not a Clack or Fleck screen, my guess it is some really inexpensive screen, it is likely simply flexing under flow allowing the resin to pass right through it. This is why we push so hard on quality over saving $1 by using a cheap screen. In all reality the screen is not important except when you suddenly get really cold water... as you are finding out. I would recommend replacing the DLFC button with a smaller button, replace the top screen with a good quality one, and check your resin level. it should be about 2/3 full.

 

[Kamisn]

That is not a Clack or Fleck screen, my guess it is some really inexpensive screen, it is likely simply flexing under flow allowing the resin to pass right through it. This is why we push so hard on quality over saving $1 by using a cheap screen. In all reality the screen is not important except when you suddenly get really cold water... as you are finding out. I would recommend replacing the DLFC button with a smaller button, replace the top screen with a good quality one, and check your resin level. it should be about 2/3 full.

Thanks for shedding the light on the situation dittohead. I am thinking that I need to service the valve as well after 3 years of use. I probably need to get the new basket for 1” unit, new DLFC, a valve kit and the valve wrench plus some silicone grease to do the servicing while opening the valve and also sanitize it. Are these items that you can provide that I can buy from or maybe direct me to someone who sell them?

Thanks!