Pump Tripping Thermal Overload Protector

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by K Bar, Jan 22, 2015.

  1. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    California
    Hello,

    This is my first time working on a well. Bought a little cabin in Lytle Creek, CA.
    Old pump was not working. Well is 63 feet deep. Sandy creek bed DG type soil. I am literally in the wash.
    I just put in a new 1/2 hp 230v pump at about 60' down (the drought has everything drying up and I had to go really close to the bottom just to get 7 or 8 feet below the water line. When I fired it up it ran for about ten seconds then shut off. After a minute or two it comes back on and runs for three or four seconds and shuts off. Seems like it would continue to do this if I left the power on. My best guess is that it is tripping the thermal overload protector. It sounds smooth and quiet--no funny cavitation noises or bubbles so I don't think it is sucking all the water out in those few seconds.

    It delivered about two gallons in those first 10 or 15 seconds that it ran.

    Looked to be a nice fat flow--this was done before connecting to pressure tank.

    I did the basic volt meter tests (got exactly 240 volts at well head) and checked the motor winding numbers and wiring resistance. Everything seems to check out good.

    The local well guys says I used to small of drop pipe--it's about 3/4 inch ID and the barbed fittings I had to use to connect the pump to the polypipe and well head pipe look to be about 3/8 inch ID--very small.

    Could this restriction in really overload my pump that fast and shut it off.
    How would this restriction be any different than what you would get if you used a Dole Valve.

    Another potential culprit is the wiring coming out of my 220 breaker. Top half of the breaker has what looks like a 14 gauge wire and the bottom is 12 gauge--that can't be good but would that really cause this problem.

    Any help much appreciated.
    Kevin
     
  2. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Self employed water system tech
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Pump guy is full of crap, 3/4" fittings & pipe aren't shutting the pump off, but you have to have water in the well to cool the motor and lubricate the pump. Could be that setting the pump that close stirred up some sediment that now has the pump locked up.
     
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  4. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    What is the chance you installed a 115 volt pump/motor?
     
  5. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    California
    Yeah I didn't think pipe and fitting would put that much extra load on pump that it would shut off after running for just a few seconds. I don't know how Dole valves or Cycle Stop Valves work but seems like they would put a lot more restriction on pump.

    My pump is close to the bottom but it is not locked up. If I leave the power on it will run every minute or so but only for a few seconds--it pumps nice clear water when running.
    Maybe I should pull it up and test it in a barrel.
    Or maybe run all new wire to the control box and test it while still in well.
    Thanks for reply,
    Thoughts?
     
  6. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
    California
    It has 230v scribed in the metal housing.
    It's a Franklin motor. Exact match to the old pump--but then again the old pump was bad when I got the place--who knows if and how long it worked.
    Existing control box is also Franklin for 1/2 hp 230v pump and has new capacitors that I had matched up with the old ones.
     
  7. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Connecticut
    How do you know it's quitting? Have you got an amprobe? Maybe it's pumping the well down.
     
  8. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    I can hear it shut off and water stops flowing. No amprobe but maybe time to buy one. I have eight feet of water above the pump inlet. Six inch hole--so should be about 12 static gallons. Pump only is only putting out about half a gallon before it shuts off and there is no sputtering or air bubbles--it just shuts off hard.

    Never used an amprobe but sounds like maybe that should be my next test.
     
  9. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    6 inch well is 1.47 gallons per foot.

    What brand of pump is it?
     
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Occupation:
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    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Does that mean you are still using an old start relay in the control box. Maybe the start relay is bad. Something is tripping the overload in the motor. Either you don't have the right voltage to the motor or the start cap or relay isn't getting it started.
     
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  11. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

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    It sounds like it could be that the start winding is not getting turned off and both the start and run windings are on all of the time.

    Like VMan says, the relay maybe bad. You can check the voltage on the Coil side of the relay, If it is not opening.

    A Amp meter would be a good tool, without pulling the pump.

    Good Luck.
     
  12. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Location:
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    I replaced the starter relay and the capacitor with brand new ones.
    Pump is a Franklin 1/2 hp 230v.
    I checked voltage at well head and got 240v.
     
  13. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Jan 22, 2015
    Location:
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    Got an amp meter on it today. Drawing about 25 amps on start up and then drops down to about 18-20 then the pump shuts off as usual in a few more seconds. That's way to high right.
     
  14. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Oh yeah, wayyyy to high. Franklin 1/2 230v would be around 5.9-6 running depending on head.

    Like I said previously, you may have sucked a bunch of sediment into the pump and that's locking it up or the pump could be a cheap Internet special that's junk to start with. Either way, it's coming out.
     
  15. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Like Craigpump says there maybe something wrong with the pump or motor. But it still sounds to me like you are only getting 115 volts to a 220 motor. I would check the splice. You may have gotten the ground crossed with one of the hot wires.
     
  16. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Affirmative I do still have the old start relay in there. I was confused as to what exactly that was--thought it was the black capacitor looking thing but I guess that is actually the "start capacitor". Hopefully you guys are on to something. Amprobe showed 25-26 amps when I switched pump on and then it would drop down to about 18-20 amps before pump shuts off and drops to 0.0. I checked both wires off the 220 breaker and at the well head and got similar numbers.
     
  17. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    I would like to check that starter relay. Any tips on how to do that.
     
  18. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Apparently Franklin has two control box's for these pumps. CSIR vs. CSCR. Mine is the CSCR type. Does it matter. Maybe I have the wrong box for this pump. 20150120_183626.jpg 20150121_153413.jpg
     
  19. K Bar

    K Bar New Member

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    Last edited: Jan 25, 2015
  20. craigpump

    craigpump In the Trades

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    Self employed water system tech
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    Connecticut
    You have the wrong box, you want the control box with a single capacitor for starting and the relay for run.
     
  21. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
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    You can get the CSCR box for any size pump. The running capacitor just makes the pump a little more efficient like power factor correction capacitors. But if that little blue relay is bad noting will work.
     
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