Pullout vs. standard kitchen faucet - buying decisions

[HighqualityPlumbing]

Hi, I have a few basic questions to the pro plumbers regarding kitchen faucet types:

1. Do pullout kitchen faucets, on average, require more maintenance/repair in the long run?

2. What is the pullout hose of brand name faucets typically made of? Stainless steel outside, plastic inside? What's the life expectancy?
What are non-pullout kitchen faucets typically made of, and which is the preferred material?

3. Are single handle lever handles on top of the faucet or those on the side of the stem more robust in terms of maintenance/repair?

4. What is the essential difference in terms of quality between brand name (Kohler, Delta, Price-Pfister, Moen) kitchen faucets in the $55-80 price range vs. those in the $200-400 price range? As all have lifetime warranty and manufacturers seem to ship unlimited parts for free, how does it matter to the homeowner (if there is a difference in quality)?

 

[Jadnashua]

1. Seems to be the case
2.Mine's ss, and plastic. Some seem to be plastic.
3.Not sure it matters. Personally, I think the Delta design that requires it to always be in the 'middle' when closed, causes more wear. Often, I'll be using water at the same temp, on/off, and with Delta, it's rubbing to the middle each time you shut things off, whereas on some others (I have a Grohe), you can leave it at the same place, and just turn it on/off. SOmeone obsessive/compulsive might like the symmetry of it always being in the middle when off, but it doesn't bother me in the least!
4.You tend to get more plastic in the lower end ones, but keep in mind that when you're handling the spout with a pull-out, if it were mostly metal, it would be heavy, AND it could get dangerously hot, so some plastic is required, not counting the anti-lead laws in effect for faucets. FWIW, the largest faucet company in the world is KWC. My Grohe unit is nearly 15-years old now, and looks as good as when installed. My mother wanted a Delta unit, and the faux chrome plastic is showing small scratches and dull finish after less than 5-years. Still works fine, though. AT 88, she gets what she wants, and doesn't want to listen.

 

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[HighqualityPlumbing]

Thanks for your reply.

May I ask again what is the material that the brand name non-pullout kitchen faucet spouts are made of internally? I mean basically the part where the water flows between the valve and the aerator.

On another note, although cost is never an issue for me if there is a verifiable benefit of higher quality building products, I am still having a hard time justifying paying more than $100 let alone hundreds for a kitchen faucet, when major brand name faucets are available for ca. $60-80 with lifetime warranty on all parts and the finish, and even labor is negligible as a kitchen faucet can be replaced fully or repaired using a kit in less than a half hour by even less than average handy homeowners, should that be necessary every few years.

 

[hj]

I am not sure WHERE you are buying your faucets, but FEW Moen, Delta, or Pfister faucets sell in the under $80..00 range unless you are getting the most basic, garden variety, models. The lead free laws dictate that the faucet either be made of plastic, special brass, or stainless steel, ALL metal models will be more expensive because of this.

 

[rjbphd]

Asked customers after pullout faucet installed few or so years ago, most of them say never again, why?.. they dislike the wait time between temperature change. .. if needed, best to get high rise with separate hose.

 

[HighqualityPlumbing]

I am not sure WHERE you are buying your faucets, ...

Delta B1310LF (also available at plumbing stores)
According to an Online Answer: "The body and spout are brass, the base is plastic."
lifetime warranty
Delta Foundations B4410LF $61
lifetime warranty
Delta 101-DST Classic Single Handle Kitchen Faucet $70.03 free shipping
Single handle for smooth temperature control. Durable brass construction with a dazzling chrome finish. DIAMOND Seal valving for a lifetime of drip-free performance. All parts and finishes of the Delta faucet are warranted to the original consumer purchaser to be free from defects in material and workmanship for as long as the original consumer purchaser owns their home.

I guess these are "garden variety" models. I realize the "high arch" shapes are more expensive. But I can fit even the biggest pots under the regular style in the sink, so I guess the "high arch" faucets are just a visual "improvement"? I'm not sure if I personally see the benefit. I can buy some metal artwork if I'm so inclined and into metal for decoration.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

labor is negligible as a kitchen faucet can be replaced fully or repaired using a kit in less than a half hour by even less than average handy homeowners, should that be necessary every few years.

It's nice for you to speak for every DIY out there, when threads in the forums here show otherwise.

I've been doing new fixture installs for over a decade, I certainly do NOT do it "in less than a half hour". I'm not rushing on live television for some master plumber elimination show. Depending on the amount of surprises I will run into, and yes, there are always surprises when you do any sort of on-site work, the client is billed for 2 or 3 or 4 hours, and they happily pay it. I love it when they tell me to take another break because they are not ready to shut off the water supply yet because their millenial twin daughters have to finish their showers.

Nevermind the rest of the folks who usually do NOT have the DIY skills do pull this off. How much time do you think people have on their hands as the years roll by? I'm sure their health will just get better with age and go uphill. So when the fixture breaks, folks certainly look forward to stop whatever they are doing that Sunday afternoon, remove the old unit, swap it for the warranty one (surely more fun when it is mail order), get the new one back on "in less than a half hour", then sit back and watch their facebook likes count up because they were so awesome for buying a used open box return fixture that the wife hated from day one, but hey, bargains win over bliss.

 

[HighqualityPlumbing]

It's nice for you to speak for every DIY out there, when threads in the forums here show otherwise.

I've been doing new fixture installs for over a decade, I certainly do NOT do it "in less than a half hour". I'm not rushing on live television for some master plumber elimination show. Depending on the amount of surprises I will run into, and yes, there are always surprises when you do any sort of on-site work, the client is billed for 2 or 3 or 4 hours, and they happily pay it. I love it when they tell me to take another break because they are not ready to shut off the water supply yet because their millenial twin daughters have to finish their showers.

Nevermind the rest of the folks who usually do NOT have the DIY skills do pull this off. How much time do you think people have on their hands as the years roll by? I'm sure their health will just get better with age and go uphill. So when the fixture breaks, folks certainly look forward to stop whatever they are doing that Sunday afternoon, remove the old unit, swap it for the warranty one (surely more fun when it is mail order), get the new one back on "in less than a half hour", then sit back and watch their facebook likes count up because they were so awesome for buying a used open box return fixture that the wife hated from day one, but hey, bargains win over bliss.

I didn't mean to turn this into a DIY vs. 'call the pros' thread, nor discount your skills which go certainly above and beyond screwing on a kitchen faucet, but I acknowledge that I have been too generalizing. I replaced my kitchen faucet, first time ever doing this, in ca. 1/2 hour with one from a big box store, which looks very similar to a Delta - and even used channel lock pliers for lack of a basin wrench, and the included rubber gasket doesn't even require any putty or sealant. For those who prefer to call around, make an appointment, wait and 'happily' pay for up to 4 hours plumber's time instead, the topic of this thread may be all that much more relevant. And honestly, even at 1/2 hour I'd prefer to get a solid faucet so as to minimize the likelihood of that occurrence, which prompted me to attempt a comparison between the high-end and the low-end models in terms of required maintenance.

 

[Jadnashua]

A better faucet will look good and last longer, generally have repair parts still available when something does go wrong, verses a low-end version. Course, because the low end one may have sold more, there may be a market for an aftermarket supplier verses the OEM. The handles get dropped, knocked around, and the hoses can wear out, but for many of them, the parts are available. It is very useful to keep the parts list and instruction manual tucked away for when that happens, as sometimes, there are version changes to what is called the same thing, and they are not always interchangeable. It's nice to be able to look at the parts diagram and know the exact part number of what you need verses guessing.

As has been mentioned, the Federal guidelines on low-lead on anything associated with potable water means there tends to be more plastic in the things than those of old. The more common things that eventually need replacement are often inexpensive IF you can find them. Personally, I've had good luck with Grohe stuff. My kitchen faucet has real stainless steel, not a look-alike for most of its exterior and the plastic has thus far stood up well, but it was not cheap. They do make a wide range in both price and style.

Some brands have better mounting brackets than others that make it easier to install, and easier to remove when the time comes without coming loose during extended use. It's hard to be specific. I'd look for one that you can use a screwdriver to lock things in place verses having to tighten a big nut, since you can't always get good access around it, but going straight in is almost always available. Depending on the sink and the counter, it can get really tight in there. Some don't work well in thick countertops, but some have an extension for mounting. Most will work with a standard sized hole in the counter or sink, but there are exceptions.

 

[HighqualityPlumbing]

A better faucet will look good and last longer, generally have repair parts still available when something does go wrong, verses a low-end version. Course, because the low end one may have sold more, there may be a market for an aftermarket supplier verses the OEM. ...

Thanks for your explanations, I appreciate it. However, since all major brand name manufacturers (Delta, Moen, Kohler, Price-Pfister, etc.) provide lifetime warranty on parts and (for most models parts and finish), I assume they either have to send new parts or a new current model faucet, if they don't have the parts any more, for those customer who stay in their house for life and keep the purchase receipt. Also, even if we assume complete replacements as often as every 5-10 yesrs of entry level model, the cost of capital alone of mid/high-end models is higher than the replacement cost in perpetuity of entry level models of the brand names. I see the potential / theoretical benefit of incurring less labor cost for repairs. However, I personally conclude that there may be theoretical benefits of mid- and high-end models in terms of longevity, but they are hard to quantify, and are mostly priced to cover the market share of deep-pocketed customers or "induced demand" for extravagant shapes of the spout.

 

[Jadnashua]

Some, but not all, of the price on more expensive fixtures is styling...some is materials used. Often, within the same brand, the actual working guts may be the same. As long as you don't buy an obscure house brand, you have a good chance of it being supported. SOme will warrant the finish, some only on the guts, so read carefully.

 

[Stuff]

A few years ago I went to a couple of the plumbing supply houses around here and asked for Price-Pfister parts. None stocked any PF parts so I had to order. I remember one said to replace with Delta as everyone stocks their parts.

So now I think that since everyone stocks Delta parts they must have lots of failures? I know I've fixed a few.

 

[Jadnashua]

I think much of that is that Delta has been around for a long time, and, unlike some of the others out there, tends to use the same, interchangeable guts. Yes, they do update them, but often, the newer repair parts will also work in their older valves. Some companies, Kohler is maybe the worst from what I've seen, has a design of the day, and their parts book is huge on account of it which means that brand is even harder to find parts without ordering them.

 

[Stuff]

Good point. Delta does have a fairly standard design that has been working well for decades.