Pressure Tank Options

[Maine Homestead]

We are in the midst of building a house in mid-coast Maine and are wondering where the best place might be to put the pressure tank for the well. We've thought about putting it outside in a well house. I'm wondering if anyone has had success with building an insulated well house in a cold climate? My other idea is to put a horizontal pressure tank in a corner under the kitchen counter, also not ideal, but with the house being on a slab and having an open floor plan, our options are fairly limited. Putting the tank under the cabinets obviously poses an access issue but the counter could be designed in a way to accommodate for it. Any advice here is appreciated!

 

[Valveman]

Well houses are great until the power goes off. Even the best well house will freeze with no heat or moving water for hours. A pitless adapter at the well is best, as anything below the frost line cannot freeze, even when the power is off. The pressure tank can be at the house, but must also have the pressure switch attached to it. Therefore the pressure tank needs to be close to the power supply line for the well.

When using a Cycle Stop Valve all you need is a little 4.5 gallon size tank that could be installed almost anywhere. The CSV and small tank as comes in the PK1A kit will work better than the largest tank you could buy, and will fit in a 14X14X24 inch space.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Maine Homestead]

Hey Valveman,

I should've done a little more digging on this forum, I didn't realize these existed. It seems like the PK1A kit is the way to go.

Another question, that I think I've found the answer on other forum posts, but just want to clarify. We want to have a yard hydrant before the pressure tank. Would we need a cycle stop valve before the pitless adapter? Our pump is 300ft down, so I would really like to avoid having to pull it if possible. Are there any alternatives?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Valveman]

You only have to pull the pump up about 10' to install a CSVS125 below the pitless. But you still have to lift all 300' of the pipe up that 10' to make it happen. It wouldn't take me 30 minutes to do with my pump hoist truck, but a hoist would be necessary. In areas where the frost line is shallow enough to use valve boxes, the CSV1A valve from the CSV1AM kit can be installed in a valve box before the hydrant. But in Maine valve boxes get pretty deep. There is also no reason you could not use the hydrant even when installing the PK1A in the house. However, how much water you use from that hydrant would be important. You could use that hydrant to fill a dog water bowl or something small. Or, you can use that hydrant full open , which will keep the pump from cycling off. You just cannot use any low flow rates for long periods of time from that hydrant as the pump will cycle on and off. For running water to a sprinkler or something you would just need to attach to a hydrant on the house or somewhere after the PK1A kit.

 

[Reach4]

We are in the midst of building a house in mid-coast Maine and are wondering where the best place might be to put the pressure tank for the well. We've thought about putting it outside in a well house. I'm wondering if anyone has had success with building an insulated well house in a cold climate? My other idea is to put a horizontal pressure tank in a corner under the kitchen counter, also not ideal, but with the house being on a slab and having an open floor plan, our options are fairly limited. Putting the tank under the cabinets obviously poses an access issue but the counter could be designed in a way to accommodate for it. Any advice here is appreciated!

To late to consider a part-basement?

Nice place for a water softener, filter, and whatnot.

 

[Maine Homestead]

To late to consider a part-basement?

Nice place for a water softener, filter, and whatnot.

Unfortunately yes, the house is already built.

 

[Maine Homestead]

You only have to pull the pump up about 10' to install a CSVS125 below the pitless. But you still have to lift all 300' of the pipe up that 10' to make it happen. It wouldn't take me 30 minutes to do with my pump hoist truck, but a hoist would be necessary. In areas where the frost line is shallow enough to use valve boxes, the CSV1A valve from the CSV1AM kit can be installed in a valve box before the hydrant. But in Maine valve boxes get pretty deep. There is also no reason you could not use the hydrant even when installing the PK1A in the house. However, how much water you use from that hydrant would be important. You could use that hydrant to fill a dog water bowl or something small. Or, you can use that hydrant full open , which will keep the pump from cycling off. You just cannot use any low flow rates for long periods of time from that hydrant as the pump will cycle on and off. For running water to a sprinkler or something you would just need to attach to a hydrant on the house or somewhere after the PK1A kit.

Great, thank you. I guess we'll add a CSV in the well if we ever have to pull the pump but I'll plan to keep the hydrant running for longer periods if we do use it.

Another question, the well has a very low yield at ~1/4 gallon per minute. We don't have major water needs in the house so I don't think we'll end up running the well dry but when we later add a cistern to store our water from the well, it could be an issue. The pump is a 5gpm Grundfos pump with dry run protection, but I'm wondering if we would need to use a cycle sensor or a pressure switch with low pressure cut off. Based on what I've read on the cycle stop valve website, it sounds like either of these options would be okay but just want to double check before purchasing the PK1A kit.

 

[cdherman]

Basements of any sort can be problematic in Maine as often they are building over a granite rock. But its a good suggestion -- if there were even a corner of the house where there is a deeper layer of glacial till/soil/etc that would be a great place to put a deeper "cellar" or partial basement. Under the house, it will freeze later than higher, or maybe never if deep enough. But such a feature could add thousands if not 10's of thousands to the OP design. If the OP is building a million dollar house on a picturesque remote site in Maine, then definitely do it. If its a budget build, well, perhaps put the pressure tank above ground and plan to drain if the power is off.

Lots of Maine properties are seasonal. It is understood that you drain and leave. But the problem is that if you think you have a year round property and fail to drain and then the electricity goes off, you could really regret that -- especially if you are in Florida at the time......

 

[Reach4]

But such a feature could add thousands if not 10's of thousands to the OP design. If the OP is building a million dollar house on a picturesque remote site in Maine, then definitely do it.

Looking at it as dollars per square ft, it may look better. It also does not take as much heat load as the above-ground construction.

 

[Valveman]

Great, thank you. I guess we'll add a CSV in the well if we ever have to pull the pump but I'll plan to keep the hydrant running for longer periods if we do use it.

Another question, the well has a very low yield at ~1/4 gallon per minute. We don't have major water needs in the house so I don't think we'll end up running the well dry but when we later add a cistern to store our water from the well, it could be an issue. The pump is a 5gpm Grundfos pump with dry run protection, but I'm wondering if we would need to use a cycle sensor or a pressure switch with low pressure cut off. Based on what I've read on the cycle stop valve website, it sounds like either of these options would be okay but just want to double check before purchasing the PK1A kit.

For systems without a CSV or when using a hydrant before the CSV, it is not the length of time you run the water, but the flow rate you use that is important. If the water doesn't go through a CSV before it gets to the hydrant, it is important the hydrant be opened enough to use all the water the pump can produce. If it is a 10 GPM pump, you must be using 10 GPM to keep the pump from cycling on and off. A CSV just lets you use as little as 1 GPM without cycling the pump to death.

I am assuming you have an SQ pump, since it has built in dry run protection. I don't think the dry run feature of the SQ pump works very well, and it has no adjustments. I believe it just restarts every 10 minutes and tries again. I usually like the restart feature set for at least 20 minutes, and more is sometimes required. When filling a cistern there is usually no pressure tank/pressure switch, so a low pressure cut off switch will not work. Normally a float switch in the cistern turns the pump on and off. But if you use a solenoid valve to fill the cistern, a pressure tank/pressure switch is needed for the well pump, and a low pressure cut off could be utilized. Either way a Cycle Sensor is more reliable and doesn't give nuisance problems like a low pressure switch.

 

[Reach4]

Unfortunately yes, the house is already built.

Got it. A porch with a utility basement under it would be a possibility. If you don't like porches, think of it as a deck, with solid walls holding it up.

Another question, the well has a very low yield at ~1/4 gallon per minute.

That's a very big deal potentially. What diameter is the well? How far down is the pump set? How far down is the static water level?

If you need a cistern/tank, that means another pump. The/A pressure tank would be associated with that pump. To fill a cistern, you don't need a pressure tank or pressure switch; you use float switches in the tank.

Pressure tanks can be underground with most of the tank below the frost line. It is the pressure switch which does not want to be underground, and the pressure switch has to be near the pressure tank.

 

[Sarg]

I can't imagine ever building a house in the northeast without a provision for the utilities inside the heated envelope. Murphy's law says crap goes bad in February.