Pack joint fittings and ID vs OD IPS poly pipe sizes

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mattjm

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I've wandered into the finer points of ID vs OD controlled IPS sizes. I'm located in Seattle, WA.

I had a plumbing inspection for a bathroom addition and the inspector called out the hose clamps on a brass barb fitting on the PE pipe service line before the main shutoff. He said I need a pack joint fitting.

After some careful measurements and based on the markings on the pipe, it looks like I have 1-1/4" IPS, ID-controlled, SIDR 9 polyethylene pipe.

My understanding is IPS PE pipe comes in OD and ID controlled sizes. ID controlled seems the most common.

Since pack joints are a compression fitting I would assume they only work with OD controlled pipe sizes. However I note the stiffener inserts they sell for 1-1/4" poly pipe match the ID of my pipe, but based on some examples in the brochures these are perhaps only intended to work with SIDR7 pipe.

Is there a way to get some sort of non-barbed fitting on my SIDR9 pipe? Or is my only option to switch to something else outside the building?

I also noted the inspector didn't actually write this up on the notes he gave me--can I probably skate by not fixing it? Is this technically out of the jurisdiction of King County since as I understand it the supply line is handled by the City of Seattle? But I also don't want to irritate the inspector.

Thanks!
 

Reach4

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If you decide to stick with the barbed fittings on the SIDR pipe (I would), I would use two worm-gear clamps, with the worms on opposite sides. Tighten each to 5 ft-lb (60 in-lb). I am not a pro.

If you use a ratchet socket wrench, it is easy to over-tighten.
 

mattjm

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Thanks--the current fitting has two clamps on opposing sides. Not sure about the torque--I figure if it's not leaking I shouldn't go poking at it.
 

mattjm

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After a ridiculous amount of poking through manufacturer catalogs I have determined that pack joint fittings come in a few different flavors--they are either for OD-controlled IPS pipe or made for ID controlled pipe with a specific inside dimension ratio (I guess they would have to be). The AY McDonald catalog has a useful chart:

https://aymcdonald.dcatalog.com/v/Plumbing-Catalog/?page=136

As noted my pipe is SIDR9. I did determine that McDonald makes a pack joint specifically for SIDR 9 pipe:

https://aymcdonald.dcatalog.com/v/Water-Works-Catalog/?page=206

74753-34 series. There is also a 74753-11 series that only goes up to 1". The catalog notes different lines for OD-controlled and SIDR7/SIDR9 pipe. Unfortunately not even the local supply house carries the 34 series.

Can anyone comment if the Ford fittings below will work for different inside dimension ratios? I see that for the larger sizes there are different part numbers for IDR7 and IDR9--leading me to believe that perhaps the smaller sizes can work with either?

https://assets.fordmeterbox.com/submittals/C86-xx-NL.pdf
 

Plumber01

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If the connection is inside the house they want pack joint fittings, not barbed. I have heard of them calling that out.

I do not have a code reference for that though.
 

mattjm

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Did he provide a code citation? If not, and if nobody here can tell you what code section would require the change, I suggest leaving well enough alone.

Cheers, Wayne

He didn't include it at all in the inspection report he gave me at the end...not sure if that is a wink and a nod to leave well enough alone, an acknowledgement that it is out of scope for the County permit, or an oversight.

He is correct, though. I found the section in the 2015 Seattle UPC, Section 604.14. Seems to have been added at the state level. I neglected to mention this connection is in the crawlspace, so it triggers the "within the building" clause.
 

wwhitney

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As you say, that seems to be a state amendment, no 604.14 in California's UPC. I suspect the inspector left it off the official report for two reasons: (1) beyond the scope of the current permit (not really their job to find unrelated preexisting possible violations) and/or (2) if the amendment hasn't been in force for very long (e.g. ten years wouldn't be so long), then any barbed fittings installed before that would be lawful non-conforming, and you'd be under no obligation to change it.

Given that, whether you are supposed to change it depends on when it was put it vs when the amendment was adopted. Based on all the above, you get to decide if you want to change it.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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