Options for toilet flange to 4" x 3" closet bend

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PatrickM

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I'm replacing the toilet flange and bend in a floor framed with 2x8s. The existing horizontal pipe that connects to the stack is 3" diameter.

In the area where I live, the only option for a suitable closet bend that will fit in the joist cavity is a 3" x 4" hub X hub closet bend, which seems like a good solution.

The only issue is finding a compatible toilet flange. I can special order a 4" spigot flange that will fit the inside the 4" hub. Or I can cut a 4" pipe stub, cement it to the 4" closet bend hub, then use a 4x3 flange and glue that to the inside of the 4" pipe.

The 4" spigot flange will take about 3 weeks to arrive, whereas I can get the 4x3 flange today. I'm wondering about the pros and cons of these two options. Is one more repairable in the future than the other? ...what about flow restrictions and potential for clogging?

...I have other working bathrooms so I can wait to get the 4" spigot flange if it's a better option.

Thanks in advance,

Patrick
 

wwhitney

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In the area where I live, the only option for a suitable closet bend that will fit in the joist cavity is a 3" x 4" hub X hub closet bend, which seems like a good solution.
Another option is to use a 3" quarter bend, which should be exactly the same height/curvature, just with a 3" inlet instead of a 4" inlet.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Reach4

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I expect that most glue-in closet flanges would fit if you have a "spigot" input. Picture in https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Muelle...4-Hub-x-Short-Spigot-4-x-3-in/PRD3EWHFPUFDCO4 is upside down.

https://www.lowes.ca/product/bathro...tey-fits-with-pipe-size-dia-abs-flange-253217 would glue inside of a spigot closet bend. It has the advantage of a stainless steel ring, which is better if you are going to glue it in permanently. Hmm.. Not available. Did Canada tighten up what plumbing parts they will let in?

Spigot means that the part that sticks up is the same size as a 4 inch pipe.

There are no-glue closet flanges that appeal to me. Gluing means you have to get it right the first time. Compression closet flange (AKA closet bend) means you have do-overs if needed.

If you have a hub sticking up, then you might have a harder time finding the closet flange in stock. In that case, you would want spigot type close flange.

https://canplas.dev.bfmg.ca/product_category/abs-elbows/ is from a Canadian maker. The certificate is expired, but I did not let that bother me.
 
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Terry

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Like Wayne mentions, 3" medium bend with a spigot 4x3 closet flange works well.

abs-3-medium-90.jpg
 
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PatrickM

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Another option is to use a 3" quarter bend, which should be exactly the same height/curvature, just with a 3" inlet instead of a 4" inlet.

Cheers, Wayne

I can't seem to find the quarter bend / medium sweep up here either. We only have long sweep and the standard short bend.

So the 4x3 closet bend is the only option.
 

wwhitney

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I can't seem to find the quarter bend / medium sweep up here either. We only have long sweep and the standard short bend.
In plastic, there's just vent 90 (the hubs are touching), quarter bend (standard), and LT90. Sounds like what you are calling short bend is a quarter bend.

For comparison, a 3" quarter bend has a radius of 3-1/16". While your 3x4 reducing hub x hub quarter bend has a radius of 3" in PVC and 3-3/32" in ABS. And a 3" vent 90 is 1-7/8", with a 3" LT90 at 4-1/16" (PVC). or 4" (ABS). Per Charlotte's catalog.

Cheers, Wayne
 

John Gayewski

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We rough in all toilets (where we have a choice) with a3x4 closet 90°. Mainly because you can install it and run the pipe up wild and walk away. Then when it's time we come cut the pipe off and insert a flange at the prefect height which is sitting on top of the finished floor. You don't need to get anything right and a rambit would correct a catastrophe, which I've never had to do. When we rough using all 4"pipe is the same method. I would venture to say it's really the best fool proof/legal way to do it. Our inspectors don't allow openings for toilets that are less than 3".

abs-4-3-90.jpg
 

PatrickM

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I expect that most glue-in closet flanges would fit if you have a "spigot" input. Picture in https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Muelle...4-Hub-x-Short-Spigot-4-x-3-in/PRD3EWHFPUFDCO4 is upside down.

https://www.lowes.ca/product/bathro...tey-fits-with-pipe-size-dia-abs-flange-253217 would glue inside of a spigot closet bend. It has the advantage of a stainless steel ring, which is better if you are going to glue it in permanently. Hmm.. Not available. Did Canada tighten up what plumbing parts they will let in?

Spigot means that the part that sticks up is the same size as a 4 inch pipe.

There are no-glue closet flanges that appeal to me. Gluing means you have to get it right the first time. Compression closet flange (AKA closet bend) means you have do-overs if needed.

If you have a hub sticking up, then you might have a harder time finding the closet flange in stock. In that case, you would want spigot type close flange.

https://canplas.dev.bfmg.ca/product_category/abs-elbows/ is from a Canadian maker. The certificate is expired, but I did not let that bother me.

I can't get the closet bends with the "spigot" input (i.e., one that has the same diameter as a 4" pipe on the wide end).

I saw the Canplas quarter bend, but nobody seems to stock it around here. All the stores just have long sweep or the short 90.

So I'm really stuck with just the 4x3 hub x hub closet bend. Then the question is whether to glue in a 4" pipe stub or order the spigot type closet flange.
 

John Gayewski

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I can't get the closet bends with the "spigot" input (i.e., one that has the same diameter as a 4" pipe on the wide end).

I saw the Canplas quarter bend, but nobody seems to stock it around here. All the stores just have long sweep or the short 90.

So I'm really stuck with just the 4x3 hub x hub closet bend. Then the question is whether to glue in a 4" pipe stub or order the spigot type closet flange.
Glue in a pipe.
 

PatrickM

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In plastic, there's just vent 90 (the hubs are touching), quarter bend (standard), and LT90. Sounds like what you are calling short bend is a quarter bend.

For comparison, a 3" quarter bend has a radius of 3-1/16". While your 3x4 reducing hub x hub quarter bend has a radius of 3" in PVC and 3-3/32" in ABS. And a 3" vent 90 is 1-7/8", with a 3" LT90 at 4-1/16" (PVC). or 4" (ABS). Per Charlotte's catalog.

Cheers, Wayne

Apologies for the incorrect terminology. So, to clarify, I seem to only be able to find long sweep 90s and the vent 90s. I wonder if that's maybe because the Canadian codes don't allow the medium bend 90's in sanitary applications.

Anyway I have to work with what I have access to so it's going to have to be a solution that involves using the 4x3 hub X hub closet bend.
 

PatrickM

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Glue in a pipe.
Saw your earlier comment on the advantages of gluing in a pipe so you don't have to worry about the finished floor height. In this case, the finished floor is already there but it seems like the pipe would still give me more flexibility to get the right height.

When the previous homeowners had the bathroom renovated, they just tiled around and partially over the flange (e.g., mortar squeeze out) so the flange currently sits 1" below the finished floor height.

I can't add more tile but I was thinking of cutting some spacers from plywood (glue these with waterproof construction adhesive to the subfloor) to raise the flange up to the correct height.

Whoever installed the flange also didn't cut the opening in the subfloor big enough so the existing 4x3 flange was resting on the flared part and there was a gap between the flange mounting surface and the subfloor. It seems to have leaked before...my guess is that the flange was flexing all over the place with that gap there.
 
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