Not using salt, brine well doesn't seem to fill?

[MaplesonD]

Hey guys,
I recently noticed that I havn't been using much salt and finally tested my water and realized the softener isn't doing its job. I did a manual regeneration cycle (fleck 7000sxt) and it didn't throw any errors that I'm aware of, but looking in the brine tank, the float was all the way at the bottom and it never seemed to have any water during the cycle that I could tell. I stuck a broom handle down through the salt and there was not a salt bridge.

What are the most likely problems that I should look for? I'm still searching through the forum for similar posts and it looks like cleaning the injector screen and BLFC are likely culprits? Any links to tutorials for accomplishing this? Is this on the right track?

I had tested my water with a hach test as recently as a few months ago and everything was fine, so this is a fairly recent development.

Thanks

 

[Bannerman]

Which control valve brand and model?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[MaplesonD]

Which control valve brand and model?

updated post, fleck 7000sxt

 

[Reach4]

 

[MaplesonD]

ok, so I followed those videos to put the valve into bypass and depressurize, then looked at and cleaned the screen and injector, they both seemed fine. I put it back into service, skipped through the regeneration steps to get to the brine refill, and it still wouldn't fill the brine tank. I then removed the float mechanism and it looks like there is a piece that has rusted away and might be causing the float mechanism to malfunction? It seems to start to fill and then a few seconds later, it stops, presumably because the float mechanism is falsely telling it that it is too full? Attached a picture. I took that piece off (the rusty looking ring kind of resting on the top of the plastic), thinking it might just be jamming the float stuck in the lower position, but that didn't help (probably because that piece is actually important to the function of the float mechanism).

So if that was the problem, whats the fix? do I need a whole new float apparatus, just that ring piece, something else? Is this just normal wear and tear or does it indicate some other issue?

 

[Reach4]

Is that the bottom or the top? That looks different than pictures I have seen.

 

[MaplesonD]

thats the bottom, I moved the float up to get it out of the way, you can just see the bottom of the float in the top of the image (I reoriented the image to make more sense)

 

[Reach4]

You are showing the air check valve. Most air check valves have fine slots covering the ball area to keep crud out. I don't think your no-fill symptom is related to that end.

The float rod will lift an arm on the float valve. Is that arm staying down normally, and moves readily, or is it stuck? You can test by blowing air. With the float valve, blowing should lift that ball on the air check valve enough to pass air.

 

[Bannerman]

That does not appear to be a Fleck brine tank safety valve and float assembly, but appears similar to a Genesis.

 

[MaplesonD]

Thats definitely an identical assembly, it appears I have the Genesis safety float assembly. I do have a Fleck 7000 SXT valve though. I'm assuming the guy who installed it usually used the genesis assembly with a different valve. At the time, due to reading on this forum and elsewhere, I specifically requested the Fleck valve, so that must be why there is a mismatch.

I added 5 gallons of water to the brine tank, thinking that if the lack of water was interfering in some way, that may help, and at least I could do one regeneration with some brine.

The marble float on the air check valve moves freely. The float rod moves freely as well, when I added water to the brine tank, the float moved up the rod and the rod is currently up, as I slightly overfilled. I'm not sure what purpose the rusted piece served.

Is this the part that would typically be paired with the 7000 SXT?

 

[Bannerman]

not sure what purpose the rusted piece served

Does it fit within the upper float? If so, I suspect it may act as a weight to prevent the upper float from raising too easily unless the fluid height is excessive enough so the air trapped under the float cup will cause the float to lift. Your description sounds as though the float is rising easily when it is not at least 1/2 submerged.

 

[Bannerman]

Is this the part that would typically be paired with the 7000 SXT?

That is one style and the other uses a brass valve. The safety valve is located at the top of the tank for both Fleck styles, whereas the air check valve at the bottom is totally enclosed in a plastic slotted screen.

 

[ditttohead]

Not a very good float, these are sold by mot of the online resellers and a few dealers trying to save a few dollars. Get a Clack or Fleck safety float assembly.

 

[MaplesonD]

Since I've let the water sit in the salt for a few hours, after the kids take their bath, I'm going to do a manual regeneration to see what happens, even though I don't think I've really fixed anything. It seems like its most likely that there's something wrong with the safety float assembly I guess. Are there any tricks to rule the assembly in or out as the source of the problem?

 

[Reach4]

it never seemed to have any water during the cycle

Let's go back to that. Is there water in the brine tank when you are not regenerating?

I don't mean now that you poured water in. If you have VT= dF2b, the brine tank should have water in it between regenerations.

 

[MaplesonD]

Let's go back to that. Is there water in the brine tank when you are not regenerating?

I don't mean now that you poured water in. If you have VT= dF2b, the brine tank should have water in it between regenerations.

Gonna find out in about 45 minutes. I just checked it in the middle of the brine draw step and it successfully sucked up all the brine, so I'm going to recheck it during the brine fill step and see if it fills back up.

But to really answer your question, no, there apparently wasn't water in the brine tank between regenerations. When I was going through regeneration steps earlier today, when it would get to the BF step, at one point I disconnected the brine line tubing and water was coming out for a few seconds before it abruptly stopped. After that was when I took out the float safety mechanism and took a picture. Aside from moving it around to see if everything moved freely, and removing that rusted piece, I didn't do much that made me think I might have resolved any issues, so I'm pretty much expecting it to not fill up again.

 

[Reach4]

When I was going through regeneration steps earlier today, when it would get to the BF step, at one point I disconnected the brine line tubing and water was coming out for a few seconds before it abruptly stopped.

Clearly that was not caused by the float valve.

Take a look at https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-7000-cam-timing-issue.87372/

The symptoms are different, but the brine valve, controlled by the cam, will need to be open for brine draw and for brine fill. Manipulating that by hand should be a good troubleshooting action.

This one matches your symptoms. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-7000-sxt-brine-fill-fails.80581/ I think.

 

[MaplesonD]

Clearly that was not caused by the float valve.

Take a look at https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-7000-cam-timing-issue.87372/

The symptoms are different, but the brine valve, controlled by the cam, will need to be open for brine draw and for brine fill. Manipulating that by hand should be a good troubleshooting action.

This one matches your symptoms. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-7000-sxt-brine-fill-fails.80581/ I think.

Yeah, those definitely sound very similar to my issue.

So, i went down to watch the BF step and it did fill the brine tank most of the way, though it stopped with about 2 minutes left and it wasn't filled quite enough to have lifted the float significantly. I'm not sure how this float mechanism normally works, there was a rubber stopper that seemed fixed about 2/3 up the rod, and fit in a depression on the top of the float, so I pressed the two together so the float stays at that level, if the brine gets to it, it moves the whole rod up (which it did when i manually added 4-5 gallons). Not sure if the float normally moves up and down the rod between that rubber stopper and the marble, but seems like it would still work as a safety in either configuration. Not sure what to make of this, the brine refill got just to the bottom of the float, so maybe it lifted it briefly enough and that ended the refill. Or if there is debris in the brine valve, maybe it got knocked around in the brine draw step and found its way back near the end of the brine refill step?

I'm wondering if that rusted out metal ring was jamming the float at an angle to the rod so that it couldn't move up freely as brine entered the tank, which would then make the fleck think the tank was full? But then that doesn't explain the times that I initiated the BF step and I know that the safety float was not pushing up the mechanism before the refill stopped.

Is any of that throwing red flags? I know my speculations are probably highlighting my ignorance, just trying to provide as much insight to how it seems things look since you can't see it for yourselves. I didn't try to manipulate the brine valve yet because i didn't want to take anything apart before running through one more regeneration after cleaning out the injector and screen in the valve.

I did use the hach kit to test the water, and as expected with successful brine draw step, I had soft water.

 

[Reach4]

Not sure if the float normally moves up and down the rod between that rubber stopper and the marble, but seems like it would still work as a safety in either configuration. Not sure what to make of this, the brine refill got just to the bottom of the float, so maybe it lifted it briefly enough and that ended the refill.

The main job of the float and float valve are to stop filling if the brine tank is in danger of overflowing out of the hole in the side of the tank. So you can move the float up higher to keep it out of the action.