No water in shower, tried everything

[loki993]

I am absolutely out of options here. My issue started a while ago, keep in mind this is a fully remolded house with everything new in it. The shower worked without issues for probably 6 months. The water pressure in my shower was slowly going down and down. For a while it was a bearable inconvenience , until It got so bad it had to be dealt with and eventually I am where I'm at now with no water at all in he shower. I turn the faucet on and all I get is some noise, like kind of a sucking sound, and a trickle of water. The shower is a Delta Monitor 13 series. The list of what has been done is fairly long:

Replaced the cartridge...twice, Ran without the cartridge to blow out any debris, Checked the lines and rough out for blockage. Had a professional plumber come out and check it. He cut out the tile, checked the rough out, pulled the PEX lines off and they both ran fine disconnected. Checked under the house. After all that seemingly the flow was ok to the rough out he said it had to be the water heater, couldn't be anything else, because we checked everything. Its an on demand unit. He said that the pressure on the hot side must be down enough that the balancing valve was shutting the water down so it probably needed to be descaled. So fine.

Come to yesterday I do the descale. Still no water in the shower. At this point I have absolutely no idea what to do. I'm out of options here aside from ripping the whole brand new shower out or changing the brand new water heater out. Neither of which may fix the problem.

A word of note that I found curious in this whole thing. I've ran a cartridge with the guts taken out, the balancer and all that removed and also the plumber ran a test cap in place of the cartridge. I still got no water either time when that was done. I find that a bit curious since that is eliminating what is supposedly causing the problem.

A lot of people are stumped on this one here. Any ideas before I have to start getting drastic?

 

[Jimbo]

Have you ruled out a clogged shower head??

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

You have NOT tried "everything, because if you had, you would have water in the shower. Given what you describe about the plumber, it looks like he is guessing and hoping eventually something will work. It would be easy to rule out the water heater by opening a hot water faucet in the sink and checking the pressure while the shower is turned on. Everything you describe could be caused by some condition at, or in, the shower valve, but I would have to be there to check it out. One problem that can occur with a shower only valve installed as per the manufacturer's instructions is that "debris" can build up where the "tub" opening was capped off and that will shut off flow to the shower head. It can be fixed, but there is not, and probably never was, any reason to "cut the tile". This possibility is the reason I try to install shower only valves "upside down" so the water flows directly to the shower head instead of going down to a "dead end" and making a "U turn" back up to the shower

 

[loki993]

Have you ruled out a clogged shower head??

I'm not even getting water to the faucet so the shower head isn't the issue.

You have NOT tried "everything, because if you had, you would have water in the shower. Given what you describe about the plumber, it looks like he is guessing and hoping eventually something will work. It would be easy to rule out the water heater by opening a hot water faucet in the sink and checking the pressure while the shower is turned on. Everything you describe could be caused by some condition at, or in, the shower valve, but I would have to be there to check it out. One problem that can occur with a shower only valve installed as per the manufacturer's instructions is that "debris" can build up where the "tub" opening was capped off and that will shut off flow to the shower head. It can be fixed, but there is not, and probably never was, any reason to "cut the tile". This possibility is the reason I try to install shower only valves "upside down" so the water flows directly to the shower head instead of going down to a "dead end" and making a "U turn" back up to the shower.

Tuche, I've tried everything I can think of. As for the plumber yeah I'm not sure, I think he was guessing because no one seems to have any idea of what's causing it. It was a homeowners warranty job so I don't know if that makes any difference. He cut the tile because there was no other way to get to the lines that go to the rough in to check them. I have a straight PEX run under the house from the water heater to the shower. there are no shut offs, so the only way to make sure I had pressure at the rough out was to pull the lines.

I didn't see what he did when he was in there but he said the way it was acting seemed like the valve was in upside down, but it was odd because it had worked for a while, he said it shouldn't work at all of it was upside down. It wasn't upside down but I think he may have flipped it just to be sure and then put it back obviously.

I'm trying to think of what else he tried.

Also its not a shower only valve, sorry if I made it seem that way. Its a faucet and shower. So I guess when I say no water in the shower I'm really saying I have nothing at the faucet and then obviously if there is nothing at the faucet there isn't enough pressure to push up to the shower either.

I mean to me it seems like it could be the valve too but without the cartridge it just seems like a brass fitting with not much to it. Also if I run the water without the cartridge I get water from the valve, though I have no idea how much pressure it is. I mean it seems like its coming out of it good but who knows.

 

[loki993]

why don't you try getting a professional in to help. If you aren't 100% sure what it is you don't want to end up doing something wrong and breaking it.

I found this site to have a number of decent plumbers

I had a professional come and he couldn't figure it out, so I'm reluctant to spend money that I don't have for a guy to come and spend hours, while charging me, to search for a problem. Its nothing I cant handle its just finding the actual cause of the problem is what's proving difficult.

 

[hj]

quote; Ran without the cartridge to blow out any debris,
quote: I'm not even getting water to the faucet

One of those two statements is incorrect because they are diametrically opposed.

 

[loki993]

quote; Ran without the cartridge to blow out any debris,
quote: Im not even getting water to the faucet

One of those two statements is incorrect because they are diametrically opposed.

No. When I pull the cartridge out and turn water on water will shoot out of the rough out. When I put the handle assembly back together with the cartridge in I get no water. Nothing ever comes out of the faucet anymore.

 

[hj]

IF water comes out of BOTH water openings with the cartridge out, the the problem is IN THE VALVE BODY itself. The valve WILL work if it is upside down, and in fact it would work better, (as I said it is the way I prefer to install the valve if it is just for a shower), and you would not have this problem. Have the plumber REMOVE the cap, (hopefully it is not a soldered in plug which will make the task much more difficult), on the bottom of the faucet inside the wall and clean out the TWO openings, one from the cartridge and the other up to the shower head.

 

[Bluebinky]

Ditto on what hj says...

You need a good flow of both hot and cold water into the valve. Otherwise, you won't get anything when you put it all back together.

 

[loki993]

IF water comes out of BOTH water openings with the cartridge out, the the problem is IN THE VALVE BODY itself. The valve WILL work if it is upside down, and in fact it would work better, (as I said it is the way I prefer to install the valve if it is just for a shower), and you would not have this problem. Have the plumber REMOVE the cap, (hopefully it is not a soldered in plug which will make the task much more difficult), on the bottom of the faucet inside the wall and clean out the TWO openings, one from the cartridge and the other up to the shower head.

I'm thinking its the valve too somehow. I honestly didn't think there was much to it but there mush be something going on in it and something must be clogged. I did a unscientific test on it don't know. I could find a test cap so I though id try a rubber drain plug, it fit just about perfect. I figured with nothing in there water should come right out of the faucet, it didn't. I turned the water back on at the main water shut off, I put a quarter turn on it and it blew the drain plug out and across the shower, I heard it. I don't think that kind of pressure builds up unless water isn't going anywhere, but I don't know for sure. I don't know if that was silly to do or not. The valve has regular fittings that unscrew for the water lines but I think its soldered to the pipe that goes to the faucet/shower so Ill have to fine a way to deal with that.

Ditto on what hj says...

You need a good flow of both hot and cold water into the valve. Otherwise, you won't get anything when you put it all back together.

Right. I do get flow from both sides if I just let it go without the cartridge in. Water shoots across the shower, but water does come out, hot and cold.

 

[Jadnashua]

If sometime during your trials, you only had one supply on when you then turned the shower valve on, it may have jammed the spool valve to one side. If this happens, normally, it would just recenter itself when water was applied to both sides, but if it is jammed and there's a little crud in there, it may not. Some valves use check valves, some have a spool valve (which is what I was talking about), sometimes, these are separate from the cartridge, sometimes, they are incorporated into the cartridge. If yours are external from the cartridge, no water would come out if it was jammed to one end. Sometimes, all it takes is a sharp blow from a wooden mallet, sometimes, you have to remove the thing, sometimes you have o replace the thing. The only other thing it could be if water is getting into the valve body is that the outlet port is clogged or plugged.

 

[Winslow]

Turn off the water remove the cartridge and blow compressed air through the shower head and see if it is clear. This is the only fixture with a problem?

 

[hj]

quote; I think its soldered to the pipe that goes to the faucet/shower so Ill have to fine a way to deal with that

I may have to come over there and give you a "slap aside the head". Forget about the pipe that goes to the shower. Is there a connection on the bottom that would have gone to a tub? IF SO, unscrew that one and flush the "junk" out of it.

 

[Wraujr]

Some confusion here... I read back thru posts and I heard:

Has both Shower Head and Tub Spout (OP uses "faucet" when I think he means Tub Spout)
With cartridge OUT, water comes out valve BODY with force for BOTH hot and cold
With cartridge IN, no (or little) water comes out Tub Spout or Shower Head.

I assume your Tub Spout has the simple built in diverter that you pull on to re-direct water to shower head.


To OP, is this correct?

I believe what hj is getting at is that after passing through the cartridge, the mixed hot and cold water exits the valve body
thru the same opening in the valve bottom which is connected to tub spout.
Around the same area there is an opening in the valve body that leads to the shower head. When you pull on the diverter
in the Tub Spout you block the flow of water and it then is forced up to the shower head. With diverter disengaged water
follows path of least effort...which is the much lower Tub Spout
So if you have no water at EITHER Shower Head or Tub Spout you have:
(1) Bad/Stuck/Defective Cartridge
(2) Blockage in the valve body where water exits cartridge to go to Tub Spout or Shower Head

 

[hj]

quote; Has both Shower Head and Tub Spout (OP uses "faucet" when I think he means Tub Spout)

They stated this was a shower, and few common showers have a "toe tester" spout. In my opinion, if they DID have one, they would not be having this problem.

 

[Pete Conrad]

Hi, apparently I am having a very similar problem. Was there ever a fix?

Kohler Finial shower valve with shower diverter on the valve body. Water dribbles out of the tub spout (strainer screen removed) and doesn't come out of the shower head pipe (shower head removed) when the diverter button / plunger is pushed. I have a brand new cartridge and cap (part that holds the cartridge in), still doesn't work. Water sprays out of the hot and cold with proper pressure when the cartridge / cap is removed and the shut off valves are turned on. I can blow air freely / easily into the shower head pipe and tub spout with no apparent obstruction when the cartridge is removed. I'm going crazy! My next thing is to go buy a 7/8" deep socket to remove the diverter plunger which is a little sticky. Any thoughts?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sue Barnaby]

Some confusion here... I read back thru posts and I heard:

Has both Shower Head and Tub Spout (OP uses "faucet" when I think he means Tub Spout)
With cartridge OUT, water comes out valve BODY with force for BOTH hot and cold
With cartridge IN, no (or little) water comes out Tub Spout or Shower Head.

I assume your Tub Spout has the simple built in diverter that you pull on to re-direct water to shower head.


To OP, is this correct?

I believe what hj is getting at is that after passing through the cartridge, the mixed hot and cold water exits the valve body
thru the same opening in the valve bottom which is connected to tub spout.
Around the same area there is an opening in the valve body that leads to the shower head. When you pull on the diverter
in the Tub Spout you block the flow of water and it then is forced up to the shower head. With diverter disengaged water
follows path of least effort...which is the much lower Tub Spout
So if you have no water at EITHER Shower Head or Tub Spout you have:
(1) Bad/Stuck/Defective Cartridge
(2) Blockage in the valve body where water exits cartridge to go to Tub Spout or Shower Head

 

[Sue Barnaby]

Thanks. I've been following along because I have very similar problem. No water coming out tub/shower in 30 year old set up. Changed cartridge. Still nothing. Water pours out nicely with cartridge out. So #1 can't be true for me because new cartridge installed so must be your second suggestion.

 

[Anthony M]

I recently had this issue (Delta 1300/1400 series). Water flow has slowed and then reduced to zero flow.

I first replaced the cartridge and re-assembled. Still zero flow. I removed the cartridge and valved in the water supply and got flow out the face of the valve. After re-assembly, I could hear water getting to the tub/shower diverter valve. I ordered a Pressure Test Cap (Delta #RP46078) so I could remove the cartridge and test flow directly from the valve body to the tub spout and shower head (this takes the cartridge out of the flow equation). I did so and still had no flow (so then I knew it wasn't a cartridge issue but a clog issue). In my instance, the tub/shower outlet port within the valve body was clogged.

To clean the valve clog (or replace it) would have required removing the valve. To remove or replace the valve would have required moving a water heater that was sitting directly behind the shower valve in a closet.

Long story short: I was able to re-establish full flow by drilling a hole in the shower tube located in the tub/shower outlet port within the valve body. It was as simple as drilling the hole, flushing the valve body out, and re-assembling everything.

There are at least 2 styles of 1300/1400 valve bodies. The earlier version only has 3 ports within the body (hot water inlet port, cold water inlet port and the spout/shower outlet port). The later version has 4 ports (individual shower outlet and individual spout outlet and individual hot and cold inlets). On the earlier 3 port type, the water enters the outlet port, goes down to the spout, and can then is diverted back up to the shower through a TUBE inside the port. You can see this tube with the cartridge out. It is inside the outlet port. This is what I drilled a big hole in. This enabled water to bypass the clog. I expected to then get water at the spout and shower head at the same time but did not (maybe I would have with more water pressure?). Regardless, it's now working fine.

There were a couple of other things I had on my list that I either checked or I didn't need to go that far. This may help someone else:
(1) Verify the valve doesn't have screw stops (WS type valves). If so, make sure these are fully open. Remove the cover plate to check.
(2) Verify COLD water flow and HOT water flow INDIVIDUALLY from the valve body. Note the water flow from each (are they fairly balanced?)
(3) If the cold water has low flow, the cartridge anti-scald function might prevent hot water flow....and maybe no flow.
(4) By installing a test plug, water flow to the spout and shower head can be tested without the cartridge in the equation.
(5) Remove the shower head and test without it. (clogged?)
(6) Remove shower head and connect compressed air connection and blow down to spout (clear clogs)

I hope this helps someone.