No water in mobile home

[Sue Sue]

Hi. We have a mobile home in Iowa. Just moved in. In mid December copper pipe under home froze and developed 5 leaks in about a 4 foot stretch of pipe. We had water coming from taps in home but pipe spraying from leaks so had turned down to almost no flow. Installed heat tape and 1/2 pipe insulation on full run of pipe from water meter under home to water heater. Professional plumber came and replaced leaking section of pipe with pex. Water was shut off to do repair. Temp at time was below zero. Turned water back and no water in home. Plumber said it had to be frozen pipe elsewhere. The water meter had been spraying water out of the back since pipes began leaking so water company came and replaced meter. No water in home. They were here about an hour trying to help us troubleshoot. They unhooked top of meter and water came out of top of meter so they said that meant we were getting water to pipes.
It reached 50 degrees on Christmas Day and has been in 40's several times - no water. Heat tape working, no leaks in any other pipes, water meter has shown no water usage since installation - still at 28 gallons.
Today I turned on outside spigot and water ran enough to fill a mop bucket and almost fill a gallon milk jug then stopped. Water meter shows 28 gallons. No change.
I can't figure this out at all. Any help appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

Today I turned on outside spigot and water ran enough to fill a mop bucket and almost fill a gallon milk jug then stopped. Water meter shows 28 gallons. No change.

That could have been siphoning from the water heater, presuming that the water from the spigot was not coming out at high pressure.

What is the water pipe underground from the meter made of? If metal, a plumber may have a transformer that can run current through that to heat the pipe.

I would leave the kitchen cold faucet at a low rate. Once a little water can flow, the dribble flow will melt the ice. It is going to take a long time to melt ice in buried pipe with warmer weather.

 

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[Sue Sue]

Thanks much for reply. The pipe under water meter looks to be PVC.

Please excuse me if this is an ignorant question but if there was water gushing out of top of the water meter where it connected to our pipes that travel into home, how could the pipes under the meter be frozen? The water company guys specifically said that meant the underground pipe wasnt frozen.

The pipe under the meter runs to the street and connects with the main. Since we live in a mobile home we are responsible for all plumbing from meter into home. Water company responsible for pipes from main to water meter.

I am not questioning your expertise at all. Just trying to figure this out. I appreciate the help.

 

[Reach4]

The probable case is the pipe between the meter and the heat tape is frozen somewhere. This would mean that it is not buried deep enough. In retrospect, you could have dribbled water from a faucet during the cold.

One short and long term cure would be to get a new polythene (or more expensive copper) pipe run from the meter to the plumbing where you can control the temperature. The new pipe would be below the frost line. I don't know what that would cost, but it would be very significant.

I have seen postings where a frozen line was thawed by blowing air, but that may have been from a basement.

I am not a pro. Maybe my belief of the frozen pipe in the yard is wrong.

 

[CountryBumkin]

Thanks much for reply. The pipe under water meter looks to be PVC.

Please excuse me if this is an ignorant question but if there was water gushing out of top of the water meter where it connected to our pipes that travel into home, how could the pipes under the meter be frozen? The water company guys specifically said that meant the underground pipe wasnt frozen.

I believe the Meter Guy meant that the underground pipe "to the meter" was not frozen. But the underground pipe "from the meter" into your house could be frozen. Does that underground water line from the meter go into your house through a basement wall (or does it come up through a slab)?

EDIT: Oops I just noticed in the thread title that you have a Mobile Home (so no basement).

 

[Sue Sue]

I believe the Meter Guy meant that the underground pipe "to the meter" was not frozen. But the underground pipe "from the meter" into your house could be frozen. Does that underground water line from the meter go into your house through a basement wall (or does it come up through a slab)?

We do not have any underground pipe from the meter. The copper pipe comes out of top of meter and then goes above ground about 30 feet to the repaired section of pex. That section connects to galvanized pipe that goes up to water heater and branches off to bathroom and kitchen. All pipe from top of meter to water heater is heat taped and insulated.
The only pipe underground is from meter to main in street.

 

[Reach4]

We do not have any underground pipe from the meter. The copper pipe comes out of top of meter and then goes above ground about 30 feet to the repaired section of pex. That section connects to galvanized pipe that goes up to water heater and branches off to bathroom and kitchen. All pipe from top of meter to water heater is heat taped and insulated.
The only pipe underground is from meter to main in street.

I didn't see that coming. Are you in the warmest part of Iowa?

Is the meter underground?

In addition to heat tape, you would need insulation.

 

[Sue Sue]

I didn't see that coming. Are you in the warmest part of Iowa?

Is the meter underground?

In addition to heat tape, you would need insulation.

It was 56 degrees on Christmas Day then below zero 4 days later....Iowa.

Meter is above ground. What keeps bugging me is we had water in house even with the pipe freezing and leaking. Then section replaced and no water since then. It is a really simple plumbing system. From main in street underground to water meter. Then piping from that under home.
All pipe from top of meter to water heater is insulated and heat taped

 

[Jadnashua]

Make sure that the circuit feeding the heat tape is actually on and the tape is actually warming things!

 

[Sue Sue]

Make sure that the circuit feeding the heat tape is actually on and the tape is actually warming things!

Make sure that the circuit feeding the heat tape is actually on and the tape is actually warming things!

The tape is working and warm. I am just completely at a loss as to what is preventing water from coming in the house. We had water, the repair was done and no water since then. I have been troubleshooting this problem for a month but cannot come up with a logical solution. The water meter is new and water was proven to be coming out of it. No usage recorded on meter so no leaks. It was 51 degrees yesterday and heat tape working so cannot believe pipes frozen.
I guess next step is to investigate the repair. I keep coming back to we had water, repair done and no water since.

 

[CountryBumkin]

Installed heat tape and 1/2 pipe insulation on full run of pipe from water meter under home to water heater.

Does new PEX run from the meter directly to the water heater with no valves or fittings in between. Or does the PEX connect to the old pipe somewhere before the water heater?

The water meter had been spraying water out of the back since pipes began leaking so water company came and replaced meter. No water in home. They were here about an hour trying to help us troubleshoot. They unhooked top of meter and water came out of top of meter so they said that meant we were getting water to pipes.

Do you know if you have water coming out of the meter (the water at the "top" is coming from the "outlet" side of meter - and not just showing that city water is getting to the meter's inlet side?).

So first confirm water is flowing through the meter, if it is, then you need to verify if you have water flow at the water heater, or the first PEX to pipe connection it the PEX is not a full run to WH. If you open the drain at the bottom of the water heater, does pressurized water come out? (Be careful as the water may be hot. actually you should turn off power to water heater in case the heater is empty you don't want to burn out the heating elements).

You need to break the water system into "smaller sections" and troubleshoot.

 

[Sue Sue]

Does new PEX run from the meter directly to the water heater with no valves or fittings in between. Or does the PEX connect to the old pipe somewhere before the water heater?



Do you know if you have water coming out of the meter (the water at the "top" is coming from the "outlet" side of meter - and not just showing that city water is getting to the meter's inlet side?).

So first confirm water is flowing through the meter, if it is, then you need to verify if you have water flow at the water heater, or the first PEX to pipe connection it the PEX is not a full run to WH. If you open the drain at the bottom of the water heater, does pressurized water come out? (Be careful as the water may be hot. actually you should turn off power to water heater in case the heater is empty you don't want to burn out the heating elements).

You need to break the water system into "smaller sections" and troubleshoot.

There are 4 new fittings from where the pex was installed. Original copper piping ran continuously from top of meter to galvanized pipe up into home to water heater. There was a gradual upward bend in copper that connected to galvanized. The section that froze and leaked was about 4 ft long and one of the leaks was at that gradual bend. Older mobile home copper piping is 9/16th soft copper piping. No one manufactures anymore and no fittings are made to fit it. Otherwise we would have just cut out bad section and used shark bite fittings to put in new pipe.

Looks like plumber used a "swedge" on one end that he welded (sorry, don't know these terms - this is all from research) to old pipe. The pex then runs about 4 ft to a 90 degree pex bend that has 2 white clamp fittings on either end and then another white pex clamp about 3 inches above bend to connect to galvanized.

The water heater is only about 1/4 full! We had turned it off in December when pipes originally froze and hasn't been on since. Thank you....I hadn't thought to check that.

So water flowing thru meter according to water company. Water not reaching water heater to fill it. I cannot tell if there is water in the pex section or copper piping. Honestly I've looked a million times and it doesn't look like there is water in the pex to me but I don't know how to get definite answer on that without damaging the $275 repair.

I called plumber day after repair to say we do not have water. He said he saw water in pex line and we must have frozen section above the pex. He would not come back to check unless we paid service call and labor. We live paycheck to paycheck and already have about $400 in this with new heat tape, insulation, water company charges and repair. We would pay charge if certain that was problem.Aarrghh!

 

[CountryBumkin]

If your not "handy" or don't have the tools and are unable to do the work your self, you have no choice but to call in a plumber or wait for the spring thaw.

I have both colored and clear PEX pipe in my house and it is impossible (for me) to tell by looking if there is water in it or not (maybe if the pipe was half full I could see a color difference, but not with a full or empty pipe).