No water after "heavy" water use.

[yeto]

Hi,

I have a submersible pump/bladder tank system. Sometimes during heavy water use (both showers running at the same time) the water will stop completely without warning then after a few minutes it will come back full force. My plumber replaced the bladder tank which didn't make a difference. He says he is not sure what is causing the problem but thinks it may be the well/pump. He says he is not a well/pump plumber so he can't do anything else to help me.

Also, when the water stops I can hear water rushing into the hot water tank. After 15-30 seconds I no longer hear the water going into the hot water tank and a few minutes later the water is back to normal.

Would someone be able to offer some advice as to some things I can check to determine what is causing this problem?

Kind regards,
yeto

 

[Reach4]

Pump runs dry? Do you have a device that shuts down the pump for a while if you run out of water? This could be a separate box, or could be inside of your pump control box.

Also, when the water stops I can hear water rushing into the hot water tank. After 15-30 seconds I no longer hear the water going into the hot water tank and a few minutes later the water is back to normal.

I don't know how to explain this. Maybe while running water as you do during those showers, turn off the pump. See if you hear similar sounds for 15 to 30 seconds.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Either the water level in the well is dropping too low or the pump is being shut off by the overload protector.

 

[Jadnashua]

If the bladder tank's precharge is higher than the turn-on pressure for the pump control, the bladder tank will first not hold as much water, and second, go empty before the pressure switch turns the pump on. The bladder tank's precharge should be a pound or two below the turn-on pressure. That gives the pump a chance to turn on before the bladder tank is empty. Depending on the check valve, if that's leaking, the pump may have to run for a bit before it refills the line and you get water back into the system. In a normal situation, that line stays full because of the check valve (or maybe a foot valve), and when the pump turns on, it can immediately supply water, otherwise, there's a delay. If that check valve is leaking, but it's a slow leak, it might be fairly normal if you've used water recently after the pump ran, but say overnight, it may have emptied the line down to the well's water level.

To check the precharge, you need to turn the pump off, run water until it stops, then using an air pressure gauge, check the tank (like checking the pressure in your tires). If it is above where the pump turns on, let a little out. It sounds like it isn't too low.

It could be that the well is not producing enough, and the pump has no water to pump.

 

[Valveman]

Either the well is running dry, or the pump is cycling too much and tripping the overload.

 

[yeto]

If the bladder tank's precharge is higher than the turn-on pressure for the pump control, the bladder tank will first not hold as much water, and second, go empty before the pressure switch turns the pump on. The bladder tank's precharge should be a pound or two below the turn-on pressure. That gives the pump a chance to turn on before the bladder tank is empty. Depending on the check valve, if that's leaking, the pump may have to run for a bit before it refills the line and you get water back into the system. In a normal situation, that line stays full because of the check valve (or maybe a foot valve), and when the pump turns on, it can immediately supply water, otherwise, there's a delay. If that check valve is leaking, but it's a slow leak, it might be fairly normal if you've used water recently after the pump ran, but say overnight, it may have emptied the line down to the well's water level.

To check the precharge, you need to turn the pump off, run water until it stops, then using an air pressure gauge, check the tank (like checking the pressure in your tires). If it is above where the pump turns on, let a little out. It sounds like it isn't too low.

It could be that the well is not producing enough, and the pump has no water to pump.

I don't "think" the well is running dry or the pump is cycling on and off due to overload/heat but I can't be 100% sure at this point.

I had my wife turn on both showers full blast while I was looking at the pump pressure gauge. It slowly when down to zero pressure so naturally there was no water. As soon as the pressure was at zero we could hear the hot water heater start making a noise. We don't know if it was water running into the hot water heater or the elements boiling the water but as soon as the noise stopped the pressure immediately went back to 40. It didn't slowly go back to 40. It literally jumped from 0 to 40 in less than 1 second. All of this happened within a 5 to 10 minute time frame. My question is how can the water pressure go from 0 to 40 in less than 1 second as if someone flipped a switch? It seems like it would have gradually built back up to 40. Also, I never heard the pump pressure switch points click on or off.

 

[Valveman]

No that is a good thing. That means your tank still has the 38 PSI air charge needed. So yes it goes to 38 almost immediately. But it shouldn't drop to zero before it starts. Check to see if the little nipple the pressure switch screws to is clogged. Probably should just replace the pressure switch while you are at it, as they can cause that problem as well.

 

[WorthFlorida]

The noise you hear in the water heater could be that for a few seconds the pressure in the water heater is higher than the "0" lb pressure tank. The water reverse flows on the cold water line back to the pressure tank. Not saying that it is, just a theory.

With a clamp meter, you can measure the current on one of the legs providing power. When the water stops flowing and you still read current if the pump is running. If the current drops to zero then the pump is shutting off.

 

[Jadnashua]

The water pressure gauge and the air pressure gauge may not agree.

You can use your tire pressure gauge on the pressure tank's precharge fill valve. WHen it is in the system (i.e., water is on the other side of the bladder), the air pressure will equal the water pressure. If the bladder pressure is higher than the cut-on pressure of the switch, you'll run out of water before the pump comes on. If the inlet to the pressure switch is partially obstructed (rust is a common thing if you used galvanized nipples versus brass), it won't be able to sense the real pressure possibly at all, but more common is that there will be a delay until the thing becomes totally clogged up.

Think of the bladder tank as stored energy. Once the bladder has pushed all of the water out of the tank, the pressure will immediately drop to zero unless the pump comes on before it is emptied. That's why the bladder tank's precharge should be less than the turn-on point of the pump motor...there will still be a little water left in the tank under pressure so the flow doesn't get disrupted.

 

[yeto]

UPDATE: I am now on city water. The losing water while in use issue has stopped. One thing that was happening while I was on well water was that I would hear "popping" inside the HOT water tank at different times during the day. The "popping" has also stopped. I am satisfied with the city water all except for the chlorine smell.

I still have the well pump connected to an outside spigot. I have removed the water softener. I want to be able to "see" when the pump is running. How would I connect my ohm meter to the pressure switch to tell when the pump is on or off?

Thank you in advance for any help,
yeto

 

[Reach4]

UPDATE: I am now on city water. The losing water while in use issue has stopped. One thing that was happening while I was on well water was that I would hear "popping" inside the HOT water tank at different times during the day. The "popping" has also stopped. I am satisfied with the city water all except for the chlorine smell.

A backwashing carbon tank could remove chloromine or chlorine plus some other stuff, if you wanted.

still have the well pump connected to an outside spigot. I have removed the water softener. I want to be able to "see" when the pump is running. How would I connect my ohm meter to the pressure switch to tell when the pump is on or off?

Look at the voltage to the pump, rather than ohms, to tell if the pump is running. Only use the ohms setting when the power is off.

 

[Jadnashua]

Easier may be to add a pilot light to illuminate when the pump is on. You can see that from across the room rather than having to get up close to read a meter.

 

[Valveman]

UPDATE: I am now on city water. The losing water while in use issue has stopped. One thing that was happening while I was on well water was that I would hear "popping" inside the HOT water tank at different times during the day. The "popping" has also stopped. I am satisfied with the city water all except for the chlorine smell.

I still have the well pump connected to an outside spigot. I have removed the water softener. I want to be able to "see" when the pump is running. How would I connect my ohm meter to the pressure switch to tell when the pump is on or off?

Thank you in advance for any help,
yeto

I am sorry you gave control of your water system to someone else. Don't let them plug that well. I would never give up my well water. With your own well you have control over how much water you can use, the quality of the water, and when and how you can use it. If things keep going the way they are, it wouldn't surprise me in the near future if the powers that be say you either pay much more, vote for this candidate, do what I say, or we will shut your water off. Freedom to use your own well water should be an amendment to the Constitution.