Need help selecting/planning water treatment system

[Jason M Law]

Hello all! I am a DIYer trying to save my money on install costs for a water softening system (and potentially filtration system) looking for a good amount of help on both selection of a system and some tips on materials/tools I'll need. I noticed the Fleck because of its price (Amazon) and through research found the Genesis which touts a much higher efficiency and cost savings over time. Consensus seems to be that it's mostly marketing spin that upflow systems are dramatically more efficient than downflow on this forum. So is it fair to say a properly configured upflow system vs a properly configured downflow system isn't likely to be 74% salt savings and 60% water savings or anywhere near that? If there are other upflow systems that will mean more savings over time, I would be willing to invest more up front.

I live in a 3.5 bath home (extra sink/dishwasher in an attached mother in law suite) with a total of 4 people living inside averaging 5500 gallons per month. I also want to make sure the system is flexible if I want to sell to a family with kids and in laws which could reasonably be 6-8. 6 still seems a reasonable max to plan the system for. The water is very hard where I am and my understanding is that it's near 20 gpG in my location. Hach 5B test kit will arrive tomorrow so I can be more precise on that!

The water is also heavily chlorinated/smelly so I was looking at carbon filters so any advice on the value/benefit here is appreciated. I noticed in some posts its not recommended but I'd be curious to know why since I am pretty much clueless when it comes to water quality/treatment.

Lastly, I read (mostly through amazon reviews) that pre-filtering with sediment filters (one at 50 microns one at 20 microns) will elongate or at least prevent early failure of the follow-on filtration/softening systems. Is that a worthwhile measure and generally true statement?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Reach4]

The water is also heavily chlorinated/smelly so I was looking at carbon filters so any advice on the value/benefit here is appreciated. I noticed in some posts its not recommended but I'd be curious to know why since I am pretty much clueless when it comes to water quality/treatment.

Smelly with chlorine? That sounds like a really good reason to get a backwashing carbon filter.

You will want to find out if your water company/department uses chloromine. If so, that will affect the kind of filter you want to get.

It will be interesting to see the hardness info.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jason M Law]

Smelly with chlorine? That sounds like a really good reason to get a backwashing carbon filter.

You will want to find out if your water company/department uses chloromine. If so, that will affect the kind of filter you want to get.

It will be interesting to see the hardness info.

Ok I'll do my research and call them tomorrow when they're open to find out.

 

[Jason M Law]

It would appear they only use chlorine per the water quality report found here: https://www.phoenix.gov/waterservicessite/documents/wsdprimarywqr.pdf

 

[Reach4]

1.5 cubic ft of 10% crosslinked resin or 2 cubic ft would be good for the softener. Click Inbox above.

 

[Bannerman]

If you're planning to install a filter to remove chlorine prior to the softener, regular 8% crosslink resin will be suitable as the largest benefit to more expensive 10% is tolerance to chlorine.

Most posters who mention carbon filters are referring to cartridge filters. Although often marketed claiming they are for 'Whole Home' use, cartridges contain too little carbon to make them truely effective. A carbon filter suitable for point of entry use will contain 1.5, 2 or more cuft of carbon and will periodically require backwashing.

Many municipal water suppliers are switching to Chlorimine as a disinfectant. Chlorimines are much more difficult to remove compared to plain chlorine so if there is any potential your water supplier will be switching, then a carbon system containing Catalytic Carbon should be considered vs common, less expensive Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) normally used for filtering out chlorine and other contaminants.

 

[ditttohead]

I would avoid buying a softener from Ama*on, most of the online companies are in a battle to have the lowest price. This will obviously cause considerable cuts in quality wherever they can find it. Upflow/downflow... we sell both but in general 98%+ of the units we ship are downflow for a multitude of reasons. The efficiency gains are extremely minimal and math is easily manipulated. I could sell either one and I do depending on the audience at my training seminars. If the company I am training sells Upflow, then I teach about the wonders of Upflow. If the company I am training sells downflow (the vast majority) then I explain the problems and complexities and potential problems with downflow.

The marketing online about softening and so many other products is getting silly. Everyone is trying to make wilder and wilder claims to be able to be heard. I know of a water treatment company that has people employed to do nothing more than write glowing reviews about the product so as to wash out any negative reviews. So saying that this product is highly reviewed means absolutely nothing anymore.

 

[Jason M Law]

If you're planning to install a filter to remove chlorine prior to the softener, regular 8% crosslink resin will be suitable as the largest benefit to more expensive 10% is tolerance to chlorine.

Most posters who mention carbon filters are referring to cartridge filters. Although often marketed claiming they are for 'Whole Home' use, cartridges contain too little carbon to make them truely effective. A carbon filter suitable for point of entry use will contain 1.5, 2 or more cuft of carbon and will periodically require backwashing.

Many municipal water suppliers are switching to Chlorimine as a disinfectant. Chlorimines are much more difficult to remove compared to plain chlorine so if there is any potential your water supplier will be switching, then a carbon system containing Catalytic Carbon should be considered vs common, less expensive Granular Activated Carbon (GAC) normally used for filtering out chlorine and other contaminants.

Thank you I will keep that in mind. If I have a large carbon tank using GAC is it typically possible to switch over to Catalytic Carbon later?

 

[Jason M Law]

I would avoid buying a softener from Ama*on, most of the online companies are in a battle to have the lowest price. This will obviously cause considerable cuts in quality wherever they can find it. Upflow/downflow... we sell both but in general 98%+ of the units we ship are downflow for a multitude of reasons. The efficiency gains are extremely minimal and math is easily manipulated. I could sell either one and I do depending on the audience at my training seminars. If the company I am training sells Upflow, then I teach about the wonders of Upflow. If the company I am training sells downflow (the vast majority) then I explain the problems and complexities and potential problems with downflow.

The marketing online about softening and so many other products is getting silly. Everyone is trying to make wilder and wilder claims to be able to be heard. I know of a water treatment company that has people employed to do nothing more than write glowing reviews about the product so as to wash out any negative reviews. So saying that this product is highly reviewed means absolutely nothing anymore.

That is an unfortunate state of affairs but I am not surprised by it. Thank you for the clarity!

 

[Jason M Law]

I just ran the test and it went blue at 12 drops but then went back to pink if I stopped stirring but finally stayed blue at 15 drops. Not sure how to interpret that but I am happily surprised it's not close to as high as I expected.

 

[Reach4]

Thank you I will keep that in mind. If I have a large carbon tank using GAC is it typically possible to switch over to Catalytic Carbon later?

Yes. The GAC would probably be coconut shell activated carbon/charcoal. The catalytic carbon would be something else. Other than cost, I don't know if there is a downside to using the catalytic carbon anyway. I am not sure if there is a difference in media life, but I am thinking my Centaur Catalytic carbon is supposed to be good for about 8 years... I hope for more. I don't have chlorine in my well water, but the filter takes iron +H2S out of my well water. It's working very nicely. Rather than just backwashing, my system washes the media with chlorine during each regen, and then rinses it away before going back into service.