Navien NCB-240E possible purchase
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DR-DEATH
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In regards to the type of boiler it's the uft 80 nat gas. The dip switches are set to default which is gas and 3 inch exhaust. So the pictures of the flame view are def not correct? I'll have to ask them to do a combustion test or verify gas input when they come to finish tomorrow. What could be causing low system pressure? I haven't messed with any pump settings yet so I'm not sure if it's set to constant pressure.
How bad is the expansion tank being on the other side? I'm understanding it's not ideal but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable asking it to be repiped on the other side...
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Leon82
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Is there a pressure gauge?
DR-DEATH
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There is on the underside. I know before they left the released some pressure. Not sure what it's running at currently though. Maybe 20 when it was around 122 f but I maybe wrong.
Leon82
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It could be airbubbles running thru the HX
-The CH pump should not be mounted at an angle- it's shaft should be parallel to the floor... get the pump install manual and verify that. Mounting it at an angle will shorten pump life and trap air. They really should have put an isolation flange on both sides of the pump, not just one side.
-Dirt strainers are recommended for Mod-cons, a combo unit like the Caleffi DirtMag Dirt Separator with Magnet should be used when a ECM CH pump is used... it is also an air remover vs. the old school air scoop. The dirt strainer recommendation is on page 10 of the install manual.
-Your flame is normal- the orange glow is from the ceramic fiber liner inside the combustion chamber. Mine looks like that too, you have to get very close to the port to see the actual flames... which will be blue.
-You must do a combustion analysis to ensure proper combustion along with gas pressure readings... see installer manual page 67.
-Dirt strainers are recommended for Mod-cons, a combo unit like the Caleffi DirtMag Dirt Separator with Magnet should be used when a ECM CH pump is used... it is also an air remover vs. the old school air scoop. The dirt strainer recommendation is on page 10 of the install manual.
-Your flame is normal- the orange glow is from the ceramic fiber liner inside the combustion chamber. Mine looks like that too, you have to get very close to the port to see the actual flames... which will be blue.
-You must do a combustion analysis to ensure proper combustion along with gas pressure readings... see installer manual page 67.
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I do recall a slight whine/hiss coming from the controller board... I think it was coming from the gas leak detector device.
Until your boiler has run for several hours there will be some air in your system, also there is air entrained in water which will be released by heating over time, so for some time before both trapped and entrained air exit.. you will hear some percolating sounds on heating cycles.
It will quiet down over time.
Installer mode has a function (34:AP) that will allow you to run the circulator without firing the boiler for up to 30min at a time, it's very useful for purging the air from the zones. Use the pump at top speed and purge one zone at a time.
DR-DEATH
Member
Ok I feel much better about the flame color and Noises based on your most recent reply. I looked at pge 10 of the boiler manual and I don't see anything about dirt strainer. I also looked at the pump manual and it lists horizontal position. I'll see what the installer says tomorrow. It says the motor should be horizontal to the ground and right now the pipe is semi horizontal but the motor is pointing up. Ugh Sounds like the biggest change that should happen is the expansion tank piped on the cold side before the pump. Even the manual states if using a back flow preventor the expansion tank has to be on that side so I'll show that to them and see what happens.
Once I get this sorted out I'll probably need help choosing what constant pressure setting I need to use for the pump. Right now it's set to max but I'm not sure what setting to use based on head numbers.
DR-DEATH
Member
Ahh I didn't see that there. Well that product is expensive and requires more labor so I'll have to figure that out. Here's a video of the crackling noise it was making.
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That's pretty much identical to what I was hearing for the first few firings of my UFT also. It subsided after a couple of days IIRC.
I still get the occasional "perk" sound once in a while. I think these boilers are very sensitive to even tiny amounts of air in the system... which is why you need a really good air separator.
Your observation port into the combustion chamber looks normal too.
I still get the occasional "perk" sound once in a while. I think these boilers are very sensitive to even tiny amounts of air in the system... which is why you need a really good air separator.
Your observation port into the combustion chamber looks normal too.
DR-DEATH
Member
Ok good. Another question on pump.. are they able to undo the Allen bolts in the back and flip the display/motor to align vertically? Or do they need to undo the flanges and redo it completely?
Leon82
Member
It looks like they tightened the flange and that's where it ended up. The Allen bolts will rotate the motor housing
DR-DEATH
Member
Ok that seems easy enough. I was reading an article on bypass valves. Is that needed?does the way they installed my boiler need a bypass? I was reading that if the pump stays on after the zone valves close it will cause issues and force water into the expansion tank and that's why a bypass is needed. Am I going to have that issue too? This is all stressful stuff because I don't want have issues down the line.
If you're using a DP CH pump, you don't need a differential pressure bypass valve because it controls the head and won't overpump if set correctly even if only one zone is open.
The CH pump "run after shutdown" feature is preset on the HTP UFT at 1 min, as far as I can tell it's not adjustable.
Even though it's not needed for systems w/zone valves... it doesn't damage the CH pump even though the zone valves are closed after the call for heat has ended. By the time all the zones have been satisfied, my pump is running on a single zone at 1 GPH at 14 watts- so it's not pumping at full speed for sixty seconds with no relief.
The CH pump "run after shutdown" feature is preset on the HTP UFT at 1 min, as far as I can tell it's not adjustable.
Even though it's not needed for systems w/zone valves... it doesn't damage the CH pump even though the zone valves are closed after the call for heat has ended. By the time all the zones have been satisfied, my pump is running on a single zone at 1 GPH at 14 watts- so it's not pumping at full speed for sixty seconds with no relief.
D_D you mentioned the need for a zone controller?
If you're just using simple motorized zone valves with end switches- you don't need an expensive zone controller.
My T-stats are Z-Wave network T-stats which require the "C" wire for 24v power- if you have standard 2-wire T-stats- just omit the "C" wire connection to the T-stats in the diagram.
If you're just using simple motorized zone valves with end switches- you don't need an expensive zone controller.
My T-stats are Z-Wave network T-stats which require the "C" wire for 24v power- if you have standard 2-wire T-stats- just omit the "C" wire connection to the T-stats in the diagram.
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DR-DEATH
Member
Yes. They tried using the transformer and when we tried to turn up any of the thermostats the boiler had no input. They tested the contacts and the TT showed 1om or something which manual says it should be 0. If they jump the TTs it kicks on. They called HTP and HTP said you have to use a zone valve controller to have it work and a transformer won't. The installers seemed confused because it sounds like most boilers don't require that. I don't have a c wire. The thermostats only have 2 or 3 wires.
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^ The installers had something miss-wired then.
Once the zone vlave motor reaches the end of travel- it activates the end switch which produces a contacts closure.... super simple.
It should be very easy to troubleshoot this issue because the concept and circuit is so basic.
Once the zone vlave motor reaches the end of travel- it activates the end switch which produces a contacts closure.... super simple.
It should be very easy to troubleshoot this issue because the concept and circuit is so basic.
DR-DEATH
Member
Ok when they come back I'll show them your diagram. They called HTP in front of me and the guy definitely did say I had to have a zone controller but yeah
