Multiple leaks uponor pex 2012 home

[Jeff H Young]

Ive never Concidered Copper pipe quality as getting better or worse , just assumed its about the same , Im sure the CDA has an opinion and most likely its a favorable opinion Im sure there are some shister lawyers out there that sued the pants off the copper companies befor too that have a story to tell

 

[Mj23]

At what temperature is the water heater set to?

120 degrees I think. The “A’ setting

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mj23]

Repipe the whole thing and send uponor some piping for analysis to file a claim. The only reason they would deny you is if the pipe was ruined by either the contractor or the piping supplier. They determine why the piping failed and should approve a claim that is legitimate.

interestingly, two of the three plumbers I’ve talk to so far have suggested just doing the hot side. They have done other houses in the area and the leaks are always on the hot side. One plumber even suggested just doing the main trunk of the hotline, since that is what was presumably wrecked by the recirc pump. He suggested doing all of the Hotline trunk and any of the branch lines that were easily accessible. He suggested, leaving the cold lines alone.

obviously this would cut down on the cost, and it would significantly cut down on the damage to the house, and subsequent cost of the restorations. However, is it “enough“?

 

[John Gayewski]

interestingly, two of the three plumbers I’ve talk to so far have suggested just doing the hot side. They have done other houses in the area and the leaks are always on the hot side. One plumber even suggested just doing the main trunk of the hotline, since that is what was presumably wrecked by the recirc pump. He suggested doing all of the Hotline trunk and any of the branch lines that were easily accessible. He suggested, leaving the cold lines alone.

obviously this would cut down on the cost, and it would significantly cut down on the damage to the house, and subsequent cost of the restorations. However, is it “enough“?

If the damage was in fact caused by the recirc line then it probably makes more sense to just to the hot. But unless you have some scientific analysis done to show that this is the problem then how do you know your won't be slowly repiping the house over years and possibly costing your more in the process? How do we know the problem isn't with the batch of pipe and whatever issue won't pop up later on the cold?

Generally your hot and cold pipes should be running pretty close to one another and taking the time to tear out one along with the other isn't much more than doing one alone. Other than the actual cost of the pipe and fittings the labor is best used at one time rather than possibly doubling back later.

 

[Jeff H Young]

The job isnt making much sence to me. Id try to do a full repipe

 

[Mj23]

The job isnt making much sence to me. Id try to do a full repipe

I agree. It is time to re-pipe both hot and cold lines.

Stick with Uponor Pex, or go to Copper?

I know copper is more expensive, but what really concerns me also, is the extra demolition that would need to be done with copper.

 

[JohnCT]

Stick with Uponor Pex, or go to Copper?

Uponor has proven to be a reliable pipe, but it seems that the problems people have with PEX always seems to be Uponor.

If it was my call, I'd repipe with PEX or PE-RT but in no case would I use Uponor in any location that already had a Uponor failure.

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

interestingly, two of the three plumbers I’ve talk to so far have suggested just doing the hot side. They have done other houses in the area and the leaks are always on the hot side. One plumber even suggested just doing the main trunk of the hotline, since that is what was presumably wrecked by the recirc pump. He suggested doing all of the Hotline trunk and any of the branch lines that were easily accessible. He suggested, leaving the cold lines alone.

obviously this would cut down on the cost, and it would significantly cut down on the damage to the house, and subsequent cost of the restorations. However, is it “enough“?

So the causes of the leaks at least opinions of the causes are all over the place , Some guys swear its from UV light So i guess only the hot line was left in the sun ? 2 of your 3 plumbers said one thing ( and what about the third) and they still have confidence in the piping in your house? Really Some of these guys are more than plumbers coming out to give free advice . There all kinds of opinions and all kinds of salesmen . some care about making a quick buck , some have faith in the product , just out of curiosity do all the plumbers claim your recirc system will be safe to use afterwards?
I guess if you are paying for the job you might have to go for the cheapest fix ? What about your invesment, Lets say this Uponor story gets worse in the public and you decide to sell your house in 4 years and what ? you tell the buyer that youve kinda sorta did a shitty repipe and it oughta be good now ? So I know cost matters and its not clear who is paying and how much but my opinion is get that shit outta my house Id trust brand new uponor more than what you have and have a small amount of faith or hope that Uponor might be making better product currently but I dont trust any of your existing.

 

[John Gayewski]

Uponor has proven to be a reliable pipe, but it seems that the problems people have with PEX always seems to be Uponor.

If it was my call, I'd repipe with PEX or PE-RT but in no case would I use Uponor in any location that already had a Uponor failure.

John

Uponor held the patent for a long time and there were no other manufacturers of pex a. So it would be hard for there to be failures from other manufacturers. Pex a is still generally referred to as uponor, because of their dominance over the product. Over time there will be more bad batches and other manufacturers will mess up.

 

[JohnCT]

Uponor held the patent for a long time and there were no other manufacturers of pex a. So it would be hard for there to be failures from other manufacturers. Pex a is still generally referred to as uponor, because of their dominance over the product. Over time there will be more bad batches and other manufacturers will mess up.

I don't now how long the other (non Uponor) makers have been manufacturing their own A, but Uponor has been making A since the 80s in the States and the 70s in Europe. Since all the complaints about Uponor seem to be since 2012, it *seems* more like a Uponor problem than a general chemistry problem with type A, although I certainly don't know.

John

 

[JohnCT]

Some guys swear its from UV light So i guess only the hot line was left in the sun ?

It could still be an issue with UV - of course I don't know, but here's what we do know - UV *does* affect all PEX, and not in a good way. PEX A also has a shorter window of allowed exposure compared to B so it's more prudent to really shorten the exposure of A to UV light as best that can be done.

So how could this seem to effect mostly the hot side if the failure mechanism was UV exposure? It's quite reasonable to assume that since the hot side is more highly stressed than the cold pipe, any UV damage that would cause premature embrittlement and aging to the PEX would affect the hot side faster. My fear would be the OP would repipe only the hot side and then find leaks/cracks showing up on the original cold side pipe 5-10 years after the hot side repipe.

Let me just add again that I don't have a clue what's going on with Uponor, just putting circumstantial evidence together the best my mind will let me. I am certainly open to any and all evidence. Personally, I would hope it was only poor UV handling either by a distributor or plumbing contractor as that means I could buy Uponor in black plastic wrap and install it with no UV exposure. But if anyone knows - they're not saying - and until I know for sure, I won't use it anymore.

John

 

[Mj23]

So the causes of the leaks at least opinions of the causes are all over the place , Some guys swear its from UV light So i guess only the hot line was left in the sun ? 2 of your 3 plumbers said one thing ( and what about the third) and they still have confidence in the piping in your house? Really Some of these guys are more than plumbers coming out to give free advice . There all kinds of opinions and all kinds of salesmen . some care about making a quick buck , some have faith in the product , just out of curiosity do all the plumbers claim your recirc system will be safe to use afterwards?
I guess if you are paying for the job you might have to go for the cheapest fix ? What about your invesment, Lets say this Uponor story gets worse in the public and you decide to sell your house in 4 years and what ? you tell the buyer that youve kinda sorta did a shitty repipe and it oughta be good now ? So I know cost matters and its not clear who is paying and how much but my opinion is get that shit outta my house Id trust brand new uponor more than what you have and have a small amount of faith or hope that Uponor might be making better product currently but I dont trust any of your existing.

Two want to re-pipe with uponor, one with copper, and one with non-uponor pex. Will get final quotes in the next few days from everyone.

of course, I expect copper to be expensive, with higher patchup cost also.

I have owned the house for two years and have never had a recirculation pump in the time that I have owned the house. I suspect that somebody had it at some point, and then removed it when they had problems with the recirculating line.

 

[Jeff H Young]

maybe its never had a circ pump? not unusual to rough in but not install it unless the buyer wants to upgrade .
Are you planning to just pay for all the repairs or trying to get warranty I think Id expect rejection if you dont make a claim befor fixing

 

[CCCBuilder]

Two want to re-pipe with uponor, one with copper, and one with non-uponor pex. Will get final quotes in the next few days from everyone.

of course, I expect copper to be expensive, with higher patchup cost also.

I have owned the house for two years and have never had a recirculation pump in the time that I have owned the house. I suspect that somebody had it at some point, and then removed it when they had problems with the recirculating line.

Hey Mj23, can you tell me/us anymore about your current setup of Uponor?
1.) The lines that failed - are they 1/2" or 3/4" diameter? Or have both sizes had leaks?

2.) Does the PEX have any yellowing to it at all? Are there some that do have yellowing and some that still look clear/white without any yellowing? Specifically does it look like the pipe itself is all fading to an amber/yellow color or is it splotchy every inch or two there are yellow spots occuring?

3.) You've mentioned maybe there was a hot water recirculator in the past, what makes you say that?

4.) You mentioned locally three others has this issue and filed claims but those were denied. Were they claims for repipe replacement, or another kind of claim like ruined drywall/finishes/etc?

5.) Are any of these people giving you quotes experienced with the Uponor PEX failing? Have they mentioned anything different or unique about your situation? The ones that wanted to go back WITH Uponor for the replacement; what was their sound logic to this that they explained?

6.) Are you currently working on filing a warranty claim for the PEX tubing itself failing?

We're all in the dark here, I've reached out to Uponor and tried to get more information and so far the only info I can gather is based on other people like yourself that can share details that help both decide what might be going on and the best moves forward. Would appreciate it if you have a chance to answer the questions. I tried to list them numerically to be easier to reply.

 

[Mj23]

Hey Mj23, can you tell me/us anymore about your current setup of Uponor?
1.) The lines that failed - are they 1/2" or 3/4" diameter? Or have both sizes had leaks?

2.) Does the PEX have any yellowing to it at all? Are there some that do have yellowing and some that still look clear/white without any yellowing? Specifically does it look like the pipe itself is all fading to an amber/yellow color or is it splotchy every inch or two there are yellow spots occuring?

3.) You've mentioned maybe there was a hot water recirculator in the past, what makes you say that?

4.) You mentioned locally three others has this issue and filed claims but those were denied. Were they claims for repipe replacement, or another kind of claim like ruined drywall/finishes/etc?

5.) Are any of these people giving you quotes experienced with the Uponor PEX failing? Have they mentioned anything different or unique about your situation? The ones that wanted to go back WITH Uponor for the replacement; what was their sound logic to this that they explained?

6.) Are you currently working on filing a warranty claim for the PEX tubing itself failing?

We're all in the dark here, I've reached out to Uponor and tried to get more information and so far the only info I can gather is based on other people like yourself that can share details that help both decide what might be going on and the best moves forward. Would appreciate it if you have a chance to answer the questions. I tried to list them numerically to be easier to reply.

1. All hot line failures have been on three-quarter inch line. I had one under the slab 0.5 in cold line fail also, but my plumbers think it is unrelated based on how pipe looks

2. Yes. A lot of yellowing and discoloration. Some are evenly discolored. Some have splotchy yellow spots every few inches. I haven’t seen anything that is clear white other than completely new pipe.

3. because there was a a place for a return line on my water heater. All of the plumbers told me that that’s where a recirculating line would have been.

4. Not sure about the specifics of each individual claim. But I know that at least one denial was because of incoming water pressure of 85 psi.

5. they have replaced Uponor pex in other houses that have had failures over the last 8 or so years. each time, they have gone back with the same brand pex. In many cases, only the hot line has been replaced. I am not aware of anybody with repeat problems after hot recipe

that said, I am leaning towards doing both.

 

[DirtyJerz]

I am not aware of anybody with repeat problems after hot recipe

You said yourself your pipes are over 10 years old, so I don’t know that having no problems over the past 8 years is really saying much. Maybe in another 5 years they are going to have the same problems again.

 

[Mj23]

You said yourself your pipes are over 10 years old, so I don’t know that having no problems over the past 8 years is really saying much. Maybe in another 5 years they are going to have the same problems again.

So, are you suggesting going with copper or another brand of Pex?

 

[DirtyJerz]

I have all copper in my house which was built in the early 80s.

I will probably be asking my builder to use all copper and brass when the time comes to build our next one.

But it’s expensive and my understanding is that for people on well water, chlorine can be corrosive and cause pinhole leaks on it too. Apparently having pH that’s too low (acidic) or water that’s too hard can also cause issues, as well as poorly soldered fittings that have excess solder inside the pipe causing turbidity issues. Nothing is bulletproof at the end of the day. Our neighbors, whose house was built at the same time, apparently had pinhole leaks show up in their hot water lines in their basement, and the plumbing company told them it was due to sweating from having foam insulation on the pipes ‍

 

[Jeff H Young]

Copper is pretty reliable of cource there are problems with some I think in most cases its best Im pretty confident in Pex as well and think a well installed Pex and good planning with minimal joints you could get some very good service though the complaints of failures is concerning Maybe Im the only one with 23 year old pex expansion with never a leak Is this rare unheard of or normal ?

 

[royalflush001]

Ignoring your PEX leaks risks further damage and inconvenience. Consider these options:

1. Leave it as it is - This option is risky and likely leads to more leaks and higher costs.
2. Perform a leak detection - It minimizes damage but doesn't solve the problem.
3. Re-piping hot water - It addresses immediate issues, but may not be a long-term fix.
4. Re-pipe both lines - this is the most comprehensive solution to eliminate future leak worries.

Consult a qualified plumber for a thorough assessment and repair recommendations.

Remember, investing in fixing the underlying issue now might save you money and stress in the long run.