Main Water Line Size and Material Recommendation

[Jon Troy Alabama]

Hey all - I am building a new house in Troy Alabama which will be approx 1000' from meter by road. There is approx 20' rise from meter to house.
Is PEX-B the recommended material for the pipe?
What size pipe? The water company said 3/4 would do. But that is the general answer for all main supplies. I want sufficient water supply but I don't want to over kill it. The cost of 3/4 meter is 800+ where a 1" one is 1100+. They said a 2" is for chicken houses and way too much for residential.
House Specifications: 25 water fixtures (6 sinks(H/C), 3 toilets, 2 shower(H/C), dishwasher, outdoor faucets, etc).

Also, the frost line here in Alabama is 8 inches at the most. I was thinking of trenching and putting line at 24". I would have connections every 300 feet for separate spigots along driveway.
I was told that a good idea would be to run water line down center of driveway since it is going to be 24" deep. I was thinking of doing it next to driveway just to be safe. Your thoughts?

Any help would be appreciated.

Jon

 

[WorthFlorida]

I know little about this question. Just to through out some thoughts. Down the middle of the driveway idea is probably to protect the pipe from damage such as digging to plant trees, fence post, garden light post etc. If it was my home I would go with 1" because of the distance.

Other than the tub spot, most quality faucets are rated at 1.2 gallons per minute to meet the EPA Water Sense Certification. Shower heads are 2.5 gpm but most most are far less. HE washing machines may only use a few gallons per fill, and new dishwashers, especially the ones that are under -49db in noise level, are slow fill. You will not hear the rush of water as it fills. Toilets are no more than 1.6 gallons as before 1992 was 3-5 gallons. The demand for gallon usage per minute is far less than 20-30 years ago.

Here is a good post with the same question.

Main water line size

Hi All, We are in the process of starting to build a 5 bedroom house on a piece of property in North Carolina and wondering what size water line we may need. Here is all the pertinent information I could think of: The house will sit on a 3/4 mile dead end road fed by a 16" main line from the...

terrylove.com

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

1 inch meter 2 inch main just guessing without knowing the pressure. I wouldnt use pex. Id use poly.
So I guess youll have 4 frost free hydrants Id set a box and ball valve at each one . Id put some stratagy into the shut offs so if a leak ever develops you can easily narrow it down to sections and bypass a bad area if nessesary .
Concider any other need for water in sizing

 

[Reach4]

I agree that you want a 3/4 inch meter, but don't let that stop you from using 1-1/4 inch SIDR polyethylene pipe. Pressure drops add, rather than the flow being limited by the smallest path.

So 1000 ft of 1.00 inch ID pipe shows a pressure drop of over 30 PSI. SIDR poly pipe ID is a little larger than the nominal size, and PEX pipe is significantly under the nominal size. So I would think at least 1.25 inch pipe, and maybe bigger. And yet keep the 3/4 inch water meter.

In most water bills, there is a monthly fee for a larger water meter, in addition to the initial charge.

In your calculations, account for altitude change. Also, use a pressure drop calculator. http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/General/Pipeline-Pressure-Loss.php is a simplified pressure drop calculator.

Another factor is what is the lowest pressure the water department will deliver to the meter at worst. If that is 120 psi, your plans would be very different from what you would plan if they will deliver 50 psi.

Menards does not service your state, but their list of SIDR poly pipe is easy to read, so this link could be of interest: https://www.menards.com/main/search.html?search=sidr

 

[Jeff H Young]

1 inch meter 2 inch main I think reach4 is waaay undersize he said 300 more for the 1 inch meter, no comment about increased fee monthly , I know that SOME places charge more on bill for a bigger meter but I have no knowledge that most or all charge more. so rather than suggest what dosent meet my code and undersizesing system Id recomend getting info from water company including pressure data. In any case Id run a 1 1/2 absolute minmum to the house. unless I was broke then its whatever you have and hope and pray

 

[wwhitney]

So 1000 ft of 1.00 inch ID pipe shows a pressure drop of over 30 PSI.

You didn't specify the flow rate for that statement, but per the calculator it was 10 gpm.

I think that's a bit low, although I'm not 100% clear on how to best determine the design flow rate. IPC Appendix E has some tables for WSFU and for flow rate. It gives 18 gpm for 16 WSFU, and 16 WSFU corresponds to 3 full baths (3.6 WSFU each), and a kitchen sink, dishwasher, and washing machine (1.4 WSFU each).

Thus I'd suggest using 18 gpm or 20 gpm, assuming no irrigation or fire sprinklers. Then the allowable pressure drop on the 1000' lateral would depend on the minimum expected water pressure at the meter at the design flow rate, after accounting for the public lateral and the water meter itself. But 10 psi allowable drop is likely in the ballpark.

So I'm thinking the question is 1.5" trade size or 2.0" trade size. Depending on the style of PE pipe, the actual ID will vary, and that is what is needed for the pressure drop calculation.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

he said 300 more for the 1 inch meter

On the 3/4" vs 1" meter question, it's just another source of pressure drop like anything else, and you can compare the cost/benefit of upsizing the meter to say the cost/benefit of upsizing the 1000' private lateral.

If you know what brand and model meters your water company will use, you can look up the pressure drop info on those meter. For example my water district installs Badger Recordall Disc Series Meters:

Recordall | Disc Series Meters | Badger Meter

Learn more about the Recordall Disc series meters that are an accurate, cost-effective solution for your water metering needs.

www.badgermeter.com

Their Model 35 is a 3/4" meter in various body configuration, while Models 55 and 75 are their 1" meters. If the design flow rate is 20 gpm, then the Models 35, 55, and 75 drop 3.2, 0.8, and 1.0 psi respectively. So for that flow rate and this brand of meters, the benefit from upsizing to a 1" meter is only 2.4 psi, likely not worth it unless the design otherwise marginal.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

1 inch meter 2 inch main I think reach4 is waaay undersize he said 300 more for the 1 inch meter, no comment about increased fee monthly , I know that SOME places charge more on bill for a bigger meter but I have no knowledge that most or all charge more. so rather than suggest what dosent meet my code and undersizesing system Id recomend getting info from water company including pressure data.

Good point. https://library.municode.com/al/tro...HCOOR_CH13MUUTSE_ARTIINGE_DIV2RASC_S13-14WARA does not say Troy, AL has a monthly upcharge for a bigger water meter. Huntsville, AL only raises the monthly rate if the water meter is over 1 inch. https://www.hsvutil.org/residential_services/residential_rates.php

Wayne, I further agree that a number bigger than 10 gpm would be better for planning for city water piping. While 10 gpm works nicely for home well planning, the well system has a pressure tank, which acts as a big buffer for sudden pressure changes. So the ability to lessen the pressure change that a bigger pipe gives, in the face of a washing machine etc pulsing water use, is a plus for going bigger.

 

[Jeff H Young]

On the 3/4" vs 1" meter question, it's just another source of pressure drop like anything else, and you can compare the cost/benefit of upsizing the meter to say the cost/benefit of upsizing the 1000' private lateral.

If you know what brand and model meters your water company will use, you can look up the pressure drop info on those meter. For example my water district installs Badger Recordall Disc Series Meters:

Recordall | Disc Series Meters | Badger Meter

Learn more about the Recordall Disc series meters that are an accurate, cost-effective solution for your water metering needs.

www.badgermeter.com

Their Model 35 is a 3/4" meter in various body configuration, while Models 55 and 75 are their 1" meters. If the design flow rate is 20 gpm, then the Models 35, 55, and 75 drop 3.2, 0.8, and 1.0 psi respectively. So for that flow rate and this brand of meters, the benefit from upsizing to a 1" meter is only 2.4 psi, likely not worth it unless the design otherwise marginal.

Cheers, Wayne

Im not good on some tech aspects of the code wayne but When I look at IPC charts I see 3/4 meter serving up to a 1 1/4 pipe 10.5 fixture units to 24 fixture units depending on pressure of cource that was for 500 foot not 1000 i didnt see the 1000 foot chart

 

[Jon Troy Alabama]

I agree that you want a 3/4 inch meter, but don't let that stop you from using 1-1/4 inch SIDR polyethylene pipe. Pressure drops add, rather than the flow being limited by the smallest path.

So 1000 ft of 1.00 inch ID pipe shows a pressure drop of over 30 PSI. SIDR poly pipe ID is a little larger than the nominal size, and PEX pipe is significantly under the nominal size. So I would think at least 1.25 inch pipe, and maybe bigger. And yet keep the 3/4 inch water meter.

In most water bills, there is a monthly fee for a larger water meter, in addition to the initial charge.

In your calculations, account for altitude change. Also, use a pressure drop calculator. http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/General/Pipeline-Pressure-Loss.php is a simplified pressure drop calculator.

Another factor is what is the lowest pressure the water department will deliver to the meter at worst. If that is 120 psi, your plans would be very different from what you would plan if they will deliver 50 psi.

Menards does not service your state, but their list of SIDR poly pipe is easy to read, so this link could be of interest: https://www.menards.com/main/search.html?search=sidr

So you recommend PVC over PEX for this run?

 

[Jeff H Young]

They all use black poly on this type stuff As Far as I know. Regular Pex on shorter runs but everything thats hundreds of feet seems I hear Poly is most common.
We run Schedule 40 PVC on just about everything Ive done which Is 95 percent between 30 ft and 80 ft new and old homes in city and suburbs.
Poly is Cheap and few joints. lasts good I suppose too>

 

[Reach4]

So you recommend PVC over PEX for this run?

No. I suggest SIDR polyethylene pipe, as I said in #4. That kind of pipe uses barbed ("insert") fittings, and stainless steel worm gear clamps.

If your local people suggest IPS polyethylene pipe and appropriate fittings, that is good too. Water companies/departments tend to use that.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Many water companies use poly or Soft Copper I belive type K . but I think Poly is best choice on extra long runs over any of the others I think its as good as the others if not better and the economics I think make it an obvious choice but price out 1000 ft of pvc pipe fittings and glue , pex , and copper even cpvc if you want but to me I already decided .

 

[Reach4]

For long runs of PVC, https://www.charlottepipe.com/Documents/PL_Tech_Man/ExpansionandContraction.pdf goes into how to deal with the thermal expansion/contraction.

For poly, I expect the temperature before burial would be worth considering. If it is a hot sunny day, I would think leaving even more slack and snaking would be called for.